32-20 Win reman ammo in a 102 yr old revolver?

[cmansguns]

First off I am NOT a reloader so this post may be in the wrong sub-forum but I think you guys might know more about my question.

I have a 102 year old S&W Model of 1905, 4th Change, that shipped October 1921 per Roy. I've got several posts about this gun over in the revolver forum.

Been looking for some factory ammo for many moons, and like many others, zip, zero, nada except for pure scam sites.

Anyway, got a tip, found a reliable site, and they have 32-20 Winchester, topped with 100 gr JHP, listed at 900 fps. The ammo is stated as Remanufactured".

Most of my searches, and from what I've gleaned off this Forum over the years has been that the old factory load was always 115 gr lead, at 850 fps. Seems like most Cowboy Action ammo on websites is listed at 115 gr also.

My revolver is in decent condition mechanically with no push-off, no excessive play or end shake, clean decent bore but I am concerned about the lighter bullet and the jacketed bullet.

I'll try calling the listing company when they open, but a lighter bullet possibly combined with modern powder (faster or slower) could cause a healthy pressure curve that could damage an old revolver. My serial number is after S& W started heat treating the cylinders, but I know from researching my old M1 Garand not to use modern 30-06 hunting ammo (even same grain weight) in the old Garand as the pressure curve is so much steeper.

Also...any comments about Reman ammo would be appreciated. I don't shoot reloads in my guns, even those of friends because I just don't know, and I have not yet experienced any reman ammo needs in any other caliber I shoot.

Thanks for listening and any advice or comments you all can make.

 

[Krogen]

I am a reloader and generally don't shoot factory or remanufactured ammo (aka commercial reloads). However, I shoot a lot of 9mm in plate matches. I don't relish sitting in front of a Dillon to make buckets-full of 9mm ammo. I've started shooting LAX remanufactured 9mm in those matches. I don't need superb accuracy, but I need the ammo to go bang and not break my gun. So far, LAX has worked fine and the cost is about the same as my own reloads.

With that said, LAX is a well-known supplier. Certainly there are others just as good. I'd be cautious, though. Many of us have heard of "gun show reloads" and broken guns. No first hand knowledge here, just a word of caution.

Also, I don't know the 32-20 very well, but I'd be careful to select a loader that addresses any pressure concerns you might have with that old revolver.

 

[Model19man]

I have a 102 year old S&W Model of 1905, 4th Change, that shipped October 1921 per Roy. I've got several posts about this gun over in the revolver forum.

If you are talking about the ammo sold by Wisconsin Cartridge the ammo is loaded to very light pressure. If it is really there you ought to buy it. It's probably not there. This is subsonic and very light bullets.

32-20 Win 100 gr JHP 900 fps (50 Rounds)(Reman) – Wisconsin Cartridge, LLC

 

[Alk8944]

I will let you decide. Several points about this:

1: "Remanufactured" ammunition is reloaded, just by a commercial reloader instead of an individual.

2: Reloaded ammunition is not inherently evil, but caution should be exercised in what you choose to use in your gun.

3.: Historically .32-20 was loaded with bullets ranging from 100 to 125 grains. Bullet weight is not a concern. Bullet type, lead vs. jacketed is not an issue regarding pressure, although jacketed bullets will cause somewhat more barrel wear on any older guns manufactured before WWII.

4: Age of the gun is not a concern, S&W .32-20 guns were made from 1899 to c. 1930, catalogued until 1940 with last shipping date ca. 1965. As long as the gun is in good mechanical condition age is of no concern! Cylinders were heat-treated starting in ca. 1918, so your gun does have a heat-treated cylinder. Based on your pictures your gun is no later than 1921 to 1922 (no "made in USA on frame).

5: Any ammunition not exceeding 900 FPS should be safe in any revolver made by S&W.

I have been loading for and shooting S&W .32-20 revolvers since my first, a 6 1/2" Model 1902 made ca. 1905, was bought in ca. 1963. I own several S&W and Colts in this caliber made from 1905 to ca. 1928.

I have no knowledge of any specific reloading company, so I will not make any comments about that. All I can say is to avoid ammunition from any company that claims their ammunition is loaded to +P pressures!

Any other questions feel free to ask in a PM.

 

[crc4]

I would never buy loose 32-20 or any other reloads from a gun show or individual. Too much danger to gun and shooter.

Face it - gun shows and gun sellers are often scoundrels, liars, and thieves there for a fast buck and a faster skedaddle after you've spent your money on a great unknown.

IF there is a remanufacturer with a solid track record with legitimate favorable reviews, that's different. Then I'd consider it.

 

[gwpercle]

Save your empty brass cases .

Generally revolvers made after 1900 are safe with smokeless powder .
A 100 gr. bullet @ 900 fps loading is probably in the same pressure range as a 115 gr. bullet @850 . What I don't care for is the Jacketed bullet . Lead bullets are easier on barrel steel and easier to get moving down the barrel .
One box shouldn't hurt your revolver at all and will leave you with some brass that is hard to come by .

I would think about a Lee Hand Press , a set of reloading dies and getting started in a fun hobby ... Reloading 32-20 Win. !

 

[glowe]

It is a fact that jacketed ammunition raise the chamber pressure over lead, since lead acts as a lubricant while jacketed puts increased resistance through the barrel. Problem is that no one seems to know how much pressure rise you will see. The old M&Ps were not designed for jacketed bullets so I do not use them.

 

[BSA1]

I would pass on that ammunition. Instead check out Black Hills 32-20 Cowboy Ammunition. They load a 115 gr. FPL at 800 fps using 5.5” test barrel.

The 32-20 is my favorite cartridge. I have shot many thousands of rounds I have reloaded using 115 gr. FPL bullets at about the same velocity. I have a couple of single action revolvers and a carbine. I have never used a jacketed bullet in them.

Black Hills has been in business for a long time and they are using new brass cases. They have a long list of customers and, according to their website, all branches of the U.S. military buys their match 5.56 ammunition.

 

[Brooks]

I would not buy that ammo, and here is my opinion:
Those reloads are advertised under their rifle ammo links on their website.
32-20 standard load for a rifle would be about 1200 fps with a 115 lead bullet. They are claiming 900 fps with a 100 JHP. This is a problem.

You need to slug your bore. S&W 32-20 HE are typically oversized bores....mine is .314 And these JHP 100gr bullets most likely are .311-.312. They will not bump up on that light charge. You will have stuck bullet in the barrel. As a general rule, please do not shoot jacketed bullets in these revolvers.

32-20 is a rifle cartridge... any claimed FPS, FPE by a manufacture should reflect use in a rifle. Their 900fps with a 100 gr JHP appears to me as a really low charge, guaranteed to get stuck in your barrel.

 

[Inland7-45]

The way to get the best out of an older gun like this is to reload for it. It is a pretty straight forward round to reload for. Once Starline gets back up again with a run of 32-20 brass will not be a problem. The only technical problem that I have encountered is that 32-20 brass is thin and is more easy deformed during the reloading process.

I have had great luck with the .313 dia 115 gr RNFP from Missouri Bullet Co. The Lyman Cast Bullet book has some very good established data for the caliber.

I have been using AA# 5 with this bullet and data from the Lyman book.
It shoots great in my 1913 vintage 5” M&P.

With carefully prepared reloads you should be able to enjoy you old 32-20 for a long time to come. So I would say that if you want to get the most out of this or any other older gun that’s shoots an expensive hard to find caliber reloading is the best option.

The best place to start is by learning as much as possible about the reloading process and then do some research on what’s out there for equipment. The major players offer some very good basic single stage presses and other required equipment.

While this does require an investment in equipment once you are set up for 32-20 it is a quick and easy step to add further calibers. If for example you were to squire a nice old S&W or Colt in .32 S&W Long, .38 S&W , 44-40 etc. you are already in the driver seat as far as having ammunition goes.

I have used commercial reloads in .38 Special and .45 ACP and had good and no complaints. I am however glad that I made the investment in equipment to roll my own.

That is a nice looking .32-20. Mine is in about the same condition and is a ball to shoot along with my other old stuff.

Good Luck with yours.

 

[1sailor]

Just out of curiosity I checked out the link in post #3 for the "remanufactured" ammo. I need to ask, is 32-20 ammo really selling for $70 for a box of 50! Is that a good price? Especially for reloads.

 

[1sailor]

I just went on GB to see what 32-20 brass would cost and wow. I guess $70 for 50 rounds isn't all that bad. You could pay a LOT more than that for mixed headstamp brass.

 

[AKtinman]

The LGS has some UltraMax brand 32-20 ammo, 115 gr lead, loaded in Starline cases. $100 per box of 50. The UltraMax plant was located in Rapid City, SD, but burned down a few years ago.

Yup, I bought a couple of boxes. It is accurate in my 1892 Winchester and Freedom Arms 97. Until Starline or someone else produces cases again, you pay the price or don't shoot. And, yes, I do reload, so that lessens the $$ pain a bit.

 

[smithra_66]

I wouldn't trust ammo like that for a vintage gun.

If those numbers are correct, then your gun should be able to handle that category of loading. That's well within the "pistol" category. But I'd trust big brand ammo or your own reloads.

Getting a gun like this but not being a reloader is like buying a horse but not having property. It's a commitment. If you don't want to reload, this probably isn't the pistol for you, unless you just want it as a display piece.

A reloading setup for low volume 32-20 would set you back literally only a few boxes of factory 32 ammo these days. A little RCBS partner press mounted on a 2x4 and some dippers and a scale is all you really need. The cost savings for reloading in a small, obscure caliber like 32-20 is DRAMATIC, and you won't ever have to hunt for it again like you do now.

 

[Model19man]

Just out of curiosity I checked out the link in post #3 for the "remanufactured" ammo. I need to ask, is 32-20 ammo really selling for $70 for a box of 50! Is that a good price? Especially for reloads.

It's pretty good considering none has been available for years. The stuff on GB or GI is low hanging fruit for suckers who have more money than brains.

 

[smithra_66]

The LGS has some UltraMax brand 32-20 ammo, 115 gr lead, loaded in Starline cases. $100 per box of 50. The UltraMax plant was located in Rapid City, SD, but burned down a few years ago.

Yup, I bought a couple of boxes. It is accurate in my 1892 Winchester and Freedom Arms 97. Until Starline or someone else produces cases again, you pay the price or don't shoot. And, yes, I do reload, so that lessens the $$ pain a bit.

Wow. Those are insane prices. It's like 28 gauge loads. They use far less components than 12 ga but cost 2x more.

32-20, once you eat the cost of brass and are able to cast your bullets, is like $8-9.00 per 50.

 

[1sailor]

Even buying precast and coated bullets would bring you down to about $12 or so per box (most of that cost is the stupid primer). I dislike reloading bottleneck cases, but I could get used to it at those prices.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Just buy legitimate factory ammunition. With a 102 year old revolver I will not take it out every month to shoot.

 

[BSA1]

The way to get the best out of an older gun like this is to reload for it. It is a pretty straight forward round to reload for. Once Starline gets back up again with a run of 32-20 brass will not be a problem. The only technical problem that I have encountered is that 32-20 brass is thin and is more easy deformed during the reloading process.

I have had great luck with the .313 dia 115 gr RNFP from Missouri Bullet Co. The Lyman Cast Bullet book has some very good established data for the caliber.

I have been using AA# 5 with this bullet and data from the Lyman book.
It shoots great in my 1913 vintage 5” M&P.

With carefully prepared reloads you should be able to enjoy you old 32-20 for a long time to come. So I would say that if you want to get the most out of this or any other older gun that’s shoots an expensive hard to find caliber reloading is the best option.

I completely agree with these comments.

I also use 115 gr. FPL 313” bullet and AA#5. AA#5 is fine grain powder so it flows and settles easily in the case.

Since the case mouth is thin and easily damaged I reload on my RCBS Rockchucker Press. As the brass cases must be lubed it is a slower cartridge to reload. With a little care brass lasts a long time.

I use R-P brass cases.

The 32-20 was considered to be a adequate deer cartridge until the Gun ‘riters and Internet ‘xperts told us it wasn’t powerful enough. Yet now Gun ‘riters and Internet ‘xperts say the .223/5.56 is good enough for deer hunting. Go figure.

If I had been a lawdog prior to W.W.2 I would have carried a 32-20 double action 4” barrel revolver. Truth be known if I was forced to only own one cartridge (say by the Government) I would be comfortable with only owning the 32-20 handgun and rifle combination. I would use hot Jacketed Bullets in the rifle and 115 gr. FPL bullet downloaded in my revolver.

I added a Cimarron Single Action Revolver last year and would love to have a Colt PPS as a match to my Colt PPS .38 Special.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If it were me I would be shooting Black Hills cowboy action ammo in my 32-20.
They sell a 115gr LFN bullet round @800 fps. I'm sure that will be kinder to your revolver than jacketed bullet ammo.