32 HE grip ID

[spence0470]

What is the preferred nomenclature of these? I've seen them referred to as something like "two-screw extended target stocks," but there don't seem to be many examples out there. Have I got something rare? It seems I've kinda hit a wall with my research. Any info is greatly appreciated

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! That is the generally accepted name, They are from the 1910-1920 decade and were standard on the .22/32 Heavy Frame Target, but they fit any round butt I frame.

 

[Hawg Rider]

I believe what you have are walnut extension-type Target stocks with gold medallions from a Third Model .22 Single Shot revolver (ca. 1909 until around 1917-1920). Do you own the revolver, or just the stocks? Do you have the original box? The Third Model is also known as the "Perfected Target Pistol", and they were shipped in lavender boxes. I would think that these revolvers and stocks are fairly rare, but I am far from being an expert on these revolvers and can't really provide a current value. These stocks were also found on .22/32 HE revolvers (Bekeart or Heavy Frame Target) from the same period. Hopefully some Forum gurus will be along soon to provide more info. Enjoy!

 

[spence0470]

Thanks for the responses. These came to me on a second model fifth change .32 HE, but I don't know if they belong there.

 

[rct269]

Pretty much everything you've been told so far is reasonably accurate.

As far as being rare goes-----nope!

Yes they came on the 3rd Model Single Shot------7,641 of them.

Yes they came on the 22/32 targets---the so-called Bekeart Model. My letters on those say they don't know how many were produced----other than to say "a large number". They started at #138226, and my latest one was #447707, but they were numbered in with the .32 Hand Ejector series, so any and everybody's best guess doesn't count for a hill of beans.

They came on the .32 Regulation Police Targets---again no definitive information on how many of those were produced.

They've shown up on several other small frame targets in my collection, but they don't letter on those guns.

The letters refer to them as "checkered walnut extension target grips".

Picking a nit, the 3rd Model Single Shots were made from 1909 until 1923, and my highest numbered one (11112) shipped December 4, 1924.

End of miscellaneous dic-doc.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[spence0470]

Were they available from the factory on any 1903 .32 HE model in that approximate 1910-1920 period? Could they be original to that particular I-frame? This is my first pre-war S&W revolver, so I'd like to be able to have what was possible on there. I like things to be correct, but in this case it's not worth factory letter $ to be that correct.

 

[murphydog]

Were they available from the factory on any 1903 .32 HE model in that approximate 1910-1920 period? Could they be original to that particular I-frame? This is my first pre-war S&W revolver, so I'd like to be able to have what was possible on there. I like things to be correct, but in this case it's not worth factory letter $ to be that correct.

If you look at the inside of the right stock panel, you may see a serial number in pencil; if that matches the gun that is good evidence. You may have to look at it in good light from different angles to see it and there may not be one.

The only way to definitely document they were original to the gun would be a letter of authenticity:

swhistoricalfoundation.com/letters/

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Were they available from the factory on any 1903 .32 HE model in that approximate 1910-1920 period? Could they be original to that particular I-frame?

As Dr. Jinks has said before, S&W would sell you just about anything. Checkered walnut or black hard rubber target stocks came on target models and were optional for an upcharge. But Model 1903 HE's came with black hard rubber stocks.

 

[rct269]

Were they available from the factory on any 1903 .32 HE model in that approximate 1910-1920 period? Could they be original to that particular I-frame? This is my first pre-war S&W revolver, so I'd like to be able to have what was possible on there. I like things to be correct, but in this case it's not worth factory letter $ to be that correct.

"Available"? Yes, but most certainly not as a cataloged option. Pretty much anything that would fit on any given gun was available----as a special order at an extra cost.

Jinks, S&W's long time Historian---among several other positions along the way, explains these anomalies thus: "They would do anything anybody would pay them to do."

As to documentation of extra cost items found on a gun, the Historical Foundation (the source for "Letters of Authenticity") has invoices in their files for pretty much everything produced/sold during the years for which they have data, and those invoices are one of the source documents examined during the research for letters. I have a copy of the invoice for a gun given to the person they credit with the development of the 357 Magnum cartridge during the early 1930's-----an invoice for a gift, not a sale. The invoice charges off the cost of the gift, and the shipping to their Advertising Account. They paid attention to their money!

Ralph Tremaine

And as an aside, the real value of a letter isn't so much about the configuration of any particular gun as is the identity of to whom the gun was shipped. Most of the guns, then and now, were shipped to one of their several distributors (Ho-Hum!!). It was fairly common during the pre war period to sell/ship guns to individual buyers---some of whom are more than interesting!! One of mine, just one, wasn't sold at all----it was given as a gift. The last line of note in that letter is "This is a very important revolver." It's little things like that, that increase the value of an item---A BUNCH!!

 

[glowe]

These style stocks were available in hard rubber from 1891 on and introduced in wood in the early Twentieth Century. As with all S&W stock designs, the gold medallion ran from 1910 to 1920 in serial numbers roughly from 110,000 to 275,000. I frame revolvers were slow sellers in the teens and twenties, so serial numbers were shipped way out of order on some guns.

Looking through my notes I find that in 1920, Regulation Police stocks were used on 22/32 HFT, with rebated back strap round butt grip frame. They replaced medallion 2 screw stocks and became standard on 22/32 HFTs. Convex top 2 screw stocks w/o medallions were optional until 1923. Aug. 29, 1923 change order replaced 22/32 HFT square butt Regulation Police convex top stocks, returning to 2 screw target stocks as standard but with convex tops, and w/o medallions. 1930 to WWII, HFT RP extended stocks used with silver medallions.

As far as where they were used, as mentioned above, all 32 HEs could have been ordered with those stocks and Single Shots, 22/32 HFTs, and most all I frame target revolvers came standard with extended stocks. I once had a 38 Perfected DA revolver that shipped with extended walnut target stocks, but without target sights.

 

[spence0470]

Thanks to all for the excellent information. It seems I have stocks contemporary with the pistol, which is much more than I knew a few days ago.

 

[Green Frog]

Over the years I've owned 2 HFT 22s. One came with the extended target grips, the other with the type of grips sold on Regulation Police revolvers. In each case they seemed to be original… they'd certainly been on their respective guns for a long time. Even back then, customers had "a better idea" about what grips they wanted.
Froggie