329 Night Guard - 1sr range trip - FTF

[Bear Country 88]

Well I took my new Model 329 to the range for the first time - and fully 1/3 of the rounds would not fire! This is the first time I have EVER pulled the trigger on a loaded gun and not had it go BOOM. Very disturbing as this gun was purchased for self-defense. Ammo was Winchester 200 gr Silvertips, and some FMJ Federal.

I bought a longer firing pin from Apex but decided to send the gun back to S&W for warranty service first. If S&W make it right, great. And while it's there I'm having the Performance Center do a Master Revolver Action Package on it. After the repair, and then after the action work they'll do some test firing so I should get it back in 100% operating condition.

If for some reason I still get the occasional FTF - I'll install the longer firing pin as it seems to be the fix for others. And to be honest, at that point I'll stash it in the safe and classify it as an unreliable gun. Sad.

This is the first gun I've ever had to send back to S&W. Hope they get it right.

 

[m657]

....hope you let us know how it works out....

Welcome to the Forum.

 

[conchmariner]

Did you check the strain screw under the grips?

 

[allglock]

I would have put the Apex pin in it and be done with it!
All they will do is put in a slightly longer pin, and call it a day.....

 

[Bear Country 88]

I didn't check the strain screw under the grips, I just decided to send it back and see if they return it in a very reliable condition. The longer pin will probably do it. I wanted to give them first shot at fixing it. They need to see what's leaving their plant, and how well (or poorly) their quality program is working.

If they install a longer pin and that fixes it, great. And they'll test fire it.

Then they'll send it over to the Performance Center for the action job. And again it'll be test fired.

If after all that it still doesn't go boom with each trigger pull - it's an expensive rock and S&W have some quality issues to address. I've had very good experience with their products so I'm hoping this is an isolated case.

S&W have a lifetime guarantee. Let's see how well it works.

 

[surveyor47]

I own a 57 Mountain Gun that had numerous issues when new. It literally could not fire 100 rounds without some type of failure and went back to S&W about 6 times over 2 years. I finally had a talk with an old gunsmith with S&W and made a wager with him:

If he could take my gun to S&Ws range and fire 100 rounds of ammo without failure, I would pay for all of the factory repairs carried out to date. If my gun failed, he would personally make sure that the gun was made 100% or have the gun replaced. My gun did not return for over 90 days and has never had a failure of any kind over the last 2 years. Persistance pays.

 

[batmann]

I had a 29 Mountain Gun I bought new and had the same problem, among others. As soon as Smith came out with the 629 Mountain Gun, I traded it. I will not keep a gun that will not function.

 

[Centurian77]

This is why I buy pre-lock hammer mounted firing pin revolvers whenever possible. I hear that many of the newer models have a shortened firing pin because of regulations in certain states. I did however have both my frame mounted firing pin revolvers fixed with extended firing pins. Not sure if this might address your issues but I haven't had any problems with mine since doing this.

 

[rayb]

I looked hard at a 3wX, whatever 44 special model number is. It had the lock, lightweight frame, and the steel barrel surrounded by whatever kind of grey metal they use to make that shroud thing.

It did fell very well balanced and good in the hand (unloaded), and seemed to "point" well without unusual hand wringing.

I passed. It cost way too much when compsared to what was also in the cabinet.

Don't think I'll grieve over not buying it.

rayb

 

[BUFF]

B.C. 88: That is really disappointing to spend that much money for a brand new PERSONAL DEFENSE handgun and find it to be unreliable.

I agree that returning it to S&W to educate them at least, is a good idea.

 

[Bear Country 88]

It is disappointing. I don't think S&W necessarily have a reputation for producing a particularly high quality product. Some go out the door in good shape, some need a trip or two back to the factory (or so I've read).

This is my first experience with S&W customer service. I'll post back with the results.

These Night Guard guns just came out so I suppose there's some teething problems. They're discounted (-$250) right now at my local shops to get them out into the system. It's marketed for personal defense and concealed carry, so it really should go bang when you pull the trigger.

Maybe waiting for a dash 2 or dash 3 is the way to go.

 

[conchmariner]

I brought this thread back because I was curious if you either got the gun back or talked to S&W to find out what the problem was.

A while back I posted about similar problems I had with my 329 with Blazer .44 Special 200 gr JHP. Today I had two FTFs out of a box of 50 Blazer .44 Magnum 240 gr JHP. One of the bad rounds fired the second time around, and the other one was just a dud. I checked my strain screw afterwards, but it only needed to be tightened about 1/4 turn. Actually all the screws needed to be tightened (50 magnum rounds at one session is a lot for a lightweight gun like this one).

So far I've put about 300 rounds through this gun, both in special and magnum, and only had FTFs with Blazer ammo, and those have been relatively few. FWIW I've also had occasional FTFs in my 396, but only with Magtech 240 gr Cowboy Action load. The Winchester Silvertips you had problems with have all fired fine in both guns. You didn't mention if the Federal was a special or magnum load. Just curious.

 

[Bear Country 88]

Still waiting - I called S&W and was told it'll be "another couple of weeks". They haven't diagnosed it yet. The Federal load was .44 spl. I have yet to fire 44 mag in this gun.

It must fire each and every time I pull the trigger. Even one FTF is unacceptable. It was purchased as a defensive firearm hence the need to go BOOM.

I now have a longer APEX firing pin but that's in the tool box for later if and when S&W cannot make this gun reliable. I'll let S&W work on it for now.

As soon as I get it back and fire more rounds I'll post with an update.

 

[sonny]

Originally posted by batmann:
I had a 29 Mountain Gun I bought new and had the same problem, among others. As soon as Smith came out with the 629 Mountain Gun, I traded it. I will not keep a gun that will not function.

I could NOT have said it better.
Sonny

 

[Bear Country 88]

Well I called S&W and was told the 329 has been repaired and is now in the "cost" department. S&W installed a longer firing pin under warranty.

Now the gun is in their Performance Shop getting a master revolver action package. Should be another week or two before I get it back.

I wonder how many of these went out the door with the short firing pin? Centurian 77 mentioned earlier that firing pin length just might be a variable controlled by State regulation or law? Is that true? If anyone else knows - post back. Thanks.

 

[David Sinko]

When you get your revolver back you will need to be absolutely certain that the strain screw is tight when you test it. Many (most?) of them do back out during dry or live fire. If you are firing a revolver with a loose strain screw you'll be wasting your time and ammo with invalid test results. I don't know if S&W does "Federal primer only action jobs" but if the springs are lightened this will be another variable that you need to consider. When you have satisfactory results, you absolutely MUST Loc-tite the strain screw and turn it all the way in. I find that with many revolvers I also need to Loc-tite the yoke screw and cylinder latch nut. It's just the nature of the beast, and a little bit of Loc-tite will solve many problems with S&W revolvers.

I don't know what to tell you about the frame mounted firing pins. Lots of people seem to be having problems with them, and I don't want to be inconvenienced by this "improvement" so I just don't buy the newer revolvers.

Dave Sinko

 

[TAC]

This problem seems to occur within the Night Guard series more often than with other models. I don't understand why either, as that part of the gun is not designed differently from the others. Did S&W outsource the Night Guard elsewhere?

 

[Brian41]

That is disturbing and I'd be upset too. I'm of the crowd that likes their carry guns S&W and hammer mounted firing pin too.

I did buy a 325 a couple years ago as it seemed the ideal carry gun and my dealer gave me a big mark down on it.
It has worked 100% from new and I like it alot. The more I looked at it and their design plus the lock I put it aside in my safe as I just don't have faith in it as a carry gun.
I know that is old school thinking but I'd just as soon put up with the extra weight of my 629 3 inch Backpacker if I want a big bore snub for carry.

I hope they return it as the gun you desire and will trust. Sad though S&W would let something that didn't go bang out their doors.

I've only had one S&W that didn't go bang and it was an older Model 19 I bought used in mid 70's. I had a gunsmith in Oklahoma do an action job on it back then and must have put 10,000 rounds through it mainly plinking reloads before I had those problems.
What I found was besides the action work he'd narrowed the main spring as well and it just got weak. A new one and it's been fine but will never again be a carry gun as I have other's 100% trusted.

 

[Bear Country 88]

A gun is a mechanical assembly of parts made by humans, and as such I would expect an occasional issue. From reading this and other threads it appears S&W let some guns get out the door with a shorter than optimum firing pin. Under warranty, S&W install a longer pin at absolutely no cost to the owner. I added the "master revolver action package" so that a S&W gunsmith is forced to take another long look at everything, test fire the gun again, and make certain the gun is right. It's unfortunate to spend the extra $145 on an action package but it'll help me regain faith in this weapon by knowing it's been looked at "two more times".

If the gun is subsequently reliable in multiple trips to the range - case closed. I'll add a drop of thread locker to a couple fasteners too. Out of all my guns over many, many years this is the only one that ever failed to fire.

Now if there's ANOTHER issue down the road with this gun... then I've lost faith in S&W for a good long while and they get no more business from me.

But right now - it appears one longer firing pin and we're back in business.

 

[conchmariner]

I may be calling S&W next week about my 329. I had 5 FTFs out of 18 rounds last time at the range. All were Blazer .44 Magnum 240 gr JHP. I haven't had problems with anything but Blazer in this gun, and the range master said it looked like the primer hits were not light strikes, so perhaps it is an ammo related problem, although I don't seem to have the same issue with this round in my 629.