I have a used- looks new- 329PD that I was shooting Hornady 225 gr. lever evolution cartridges. The first two shots resulted in the hammer coming back by itself while the trigger was still back and not reset. It went back into battery easily and didn't occur for the other four shots in the cylinder. what might I be experiencing?
329 problem
- Thread starter ram1000
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First, grip the revolver tighter.
Second, check the primer area of the last fired cartridge to see if there are multiple strikes. Multiple-strikes is normal with some ammo.
If no multi-strikes, then double-check the lock to make sure that it is off completely.
Also, if you stroke the trigger DA-style really slowly, you can get some funky hammer hangs. So don't nurse it.
more info - https://sites.google.com/site/hobbyhintstricksideas/Home/s-w-329pd-info
Second, check the primer area of the last fired cartridge to see if there are multiple strikes. Multiple-strikes is normal with some ammo.
If no multi-strikes, then double-check the lock to make sure that it is off completely.
Also, if you stroke the trigger DA-style really slowly, you can get some funky hammer hangs. So don't nurse it.
more info - https://sites.google.com/site/hobbyhintstricksideas/Home/s-w-329pd-info
I am able to duplicate the event at home without bullets in the cylinder. I cock the gun, pull the trigger and hold it back without allowing it to reset. Then I can draw the hammer back and feather the trigger off and it will catch the hammer in one specific place and hold it there untill I pull the trigger again. The cylinder has not cycled to the next cartridge during this event. When I shot the gun the hammer had to return to its cocked position from the kick of the gun as it would not normally return to the cocked position as a semi-auto would. I have since checked the hammer lock and it was and is turned as far as possible to release the locking mechanism. I don't understand how I could have multiple strikes with a revolver unless I pulled the trigger multiple times? I think I'm gripping pretty well since anything considered too light would flip the gun completely out of my hand! DO you think I could use the Buffalo Bore ammo made specifically for the 329 and reduce the impact in the gun enough to eliminate the hammer coming back to the cocked position. That said might the two cartridges I shot have been overloaded from the Hornady factory???
Thanks...
Thanks...
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In your attempt to replicate the problem at home, it sounds like the edge (tip) of the DA sear in the hammer is hitting/catching the bevel of the trigger as the hammer is going forward . I'm not sure if what you are doing at home with an empty gun is the same thing you are describing as happening at the range when firing.
Is there a trigger stop pin in the rebound assy? If so, it may not be fit properly.
Is there a trigger stop pin in the rebound assy? If so, it may not be fit properly.
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Don't know what a "trigger stop rod" is and have not had the side plate off the gun, assuming that part would be there. The main spring under the handle has a screw that adjusts the tension located near the bottom of the frame where the rubber handle screws in, but I haven't tried to change that tension either.
More like a pin really ....may not be a part of the issue at all. If there is a trigger stop pin, it's in place to restrict overtravel of the trigger. If it's not installed correctly or was not fit properly, it can interfere (restrict) with rearward trigger travel.
Pdxrealtor
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What causes this to happen? And what is the fix(es)?
He described (at home) "feathering" the hammer off of the trigger SA notch....which I assumed meant he was letting the hammer down slowly as the trigger is slowly released. This can cause the sear camming surface at the top of the trigger just above the bevel to catch on the DA sear. This "catch" may be totally unrelated to the problem he had with the action when he was firing the gun.
Thinking perhaps he "short stroked" the action under recoil? Not sure what caused what he described in his OP.
Thinking perhaps he "short stroked" the action under recoil? Not sure what caused what he described in his OP.
Pdxrealtor
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I ask because I have that exact problem you describe above, where the camming surface, or rather the tip of the DA sear, is catching the trigger camming surface on slow trigger release.
Could be the trigger is just not coming back far enough to clear the descending hammer assy. Overtravel stop/trigger stop too long?
Pdxrealtor
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The trigger completely disengages the DA sear and other parts when pulled all the way back, as viewed with the side plate off.
It happens when the trigger cam surface passes the DA sear on the way back down. When the trigger comes to it's resting point the tip of the DA sear sometimes sticks on the cam of the trigger.
It seems like a bit of material needs to be taken off the tip of the sear, or, the DA sear surfaces that ride within the upper portion of the trigger need some material removed. Or.... the spring is not strong enough to push the DA sear tip past the trigger cam.
It happens when the trigger cam surface passes the DA sear on the way back down. When the trigger comes to it's resting point the tip of the DA sear sometimes sticks on the cam of the trigger.
It seems like a bit of material needs to be taken off the tip of the sear, or, the DA sear surfaces that ride within the upper portion of the trigger need some material removed. Or.... the spring is not strong enough to push the DA sear tip past the trigger cam.
Pdxrealtor
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Any input on above would be really helpful/appreciated.
rsrha454lv
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Interested as I also have a 329 used, looks new that had a hang up on me when messing around when I first got it. Can't remember exactly what it was now and I haven't fired it yet. Was gonna get it magnaported. I'll screw with it and see if I can induce failure again. Subbing. Thanks
Groo01
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Groo here
Back to the Mothership.
Back to the Mothership.
I'm surprised at all the indecisiveness about this problem. Thought sure someone would say "...yea you'll have to send it back to S&W they know about the problem..." This is my first and last revolver I think. Except for Kimber 1911 I never had a problem with semi auto, but then all my others were plastic! The two guns I've had that were touted as being more reliable were the two that were unreliable. Don't get me wrong- I love my 10mm Kimber- its fixed now... I hope the S&W problem just disappears since I kinda like the that gun also. I'm thinking I'll just shoot BB specialty loads made for the 629 for bear repellent and 44 specials all other times.
My thinking is that the hammer rebound is noticed in this case as the revolver's recoil is enough to push the works back into the web of the shooting hand, thus allowing the trigger to come forward a bit.
What's making the hammer rebound? Plenty of pushback from the firing pin!
It's not unusual at all but isn't noticed as it happens so quickly whilst the revolver is under recoil. The odd part is the re-engagement.
Likely easiest fix may be a softer trigger return spring. Or trying different ammo.
First time I ever experienced this issue was with a 547 9mm revolver on which a silicone rubber trigger stop had been installed. Modding the stop eliminated the "recocking".
This trigger stop was great for catching the hammer on rebound. Shaved off a bit and the "self cocking" feature went away. One small change ought to do the same for the 329.
What's making the hammer rebound? Plenty of pushback from the firing pin!
It's not unusual at all but isn't noticed as it happens so quickly whilst the revolver is under recoil. The odd part is the re-engagement.
Likely easiest fix may be a softer trigger return spring. Or trying different ammo.
First time I ever experienced this issue was with a 547 9mm revolver on which a silicone rubber trigger stop had been installed. Modding the stop eliminated the "recocking".
This trigger stop was great for catching the hammer on rebound. Shaved off a bit and the "self cocking" feature went away. One small change ought to do the same for the 329.
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Mike_Fontenot
Member
I can't imagine how a revolver can COCK ITSELF when it's fired. I'd sent it back to S&W.
It only brings the hammer back, does not rotate the cylinder...
Smith actually added an additional pin to drive the fired case forward on the Model 547 using this peculiarity. During the firing sequence, the cartridge case is driven rearward by just as much pressure as is acting on the bullet. But it can (hopefully!) only move back the distance allowed by the built in headspace. The case being relatively light moves rather quickly, so even the short distance travelled is enough to get the hammer going back. In the case of the 547, when the hammer travels forward again, hitting the pins, the chamber pressure is low enough that the upper pin drives the tapered case forward, thus eliminating the chance of cylinder bind.
More or less the same thing happens with revolvers that don't have the extra pin, but the primer isn't a good surface to reliably move the case forward, being easily deformed. I suspect the additional hammer movement isn't all that much with non-magnum loads. But I have seen high round count .44 mags with finish wear where the hammer contacts the frame at full rearward travel. (Rather farther than needed to cock the revolver in SA, and lots more than is travelled in DA!)
Again, any number of minor changes, and you likely won't have this drama. Grips, ammo, primers, springs, etc. But I think it's mostly due to the revolver's light weight, as noted above.
More or less the same thing happens with revolvers that don't have the extra pin, but the primer isn't a good surface to reliably move the case forward, being easily deformed. I suspect the additional hammer movement isn't all that much with non-magnum loads. But I have seen high round count .44 mags with finish wear where the hammer contacts the frame at full rearward travel. (Rather farther than needed to cock the revolver in SA, and lots more than is travelled in DA!)
Again, any number of minor changes, and you likely won't have this drama. Grips, ammo, primers, springs, etc. But I think it's mostly due to the revolver's light weight, as noted above.
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Mike_Fontenot
Member
WOW! I would have never suspected that the case moving only through the headspace distance could possibly move the hammer (via the firing pin), and certainly not move it enough to cock it. And I guess that even if the hammer does come all the way back, it normally won't get caught by the sear because normally the trigger will still be aft of the point where it pushes the sear away from the hammer (i.e., aft of the point where it released the hammer).
