329pd Strange Problem/Malfunction--Lockwork Question

[K1500]

All,

I just got back from my most recent range trip with my newly repaired 329pd. The trigger was not resetting 100% of the time, so I sent it back to Smith. Now the trigger resets, but it has a new problem.

Each time I loaded the revolver and fired it, on the first shot a strange malfunction occurred. The hammer appeared to 'bounce back' to a position halfway between at rest and cocked. The 'half-cocked' hammer was over the empty chamber. I had to either cock the hammer fully (which required more force than normal) or pull the trigger, dropping the hammer (which also required more force than normal).

Either way the malfunction was cleared, the cylinder did not rotate and the hammer would fall on the previously fired chamber. This happened twice out of 15 rounds fired, both times on the first shot. I was using WW 240gr white box 44 mag ammo, and I take a very firm grip.

Has anyone heard of a malfunction like this? What could be the possible cause/ remedy to this problem. To be truthful, the gun has been back to Smith 3 times already, and I am about to give up. Any advice you can give is appreciated. Thanks.

Update on page two.

 

[Joni_Lynn]

4th times the charm right?
Sounds like a trip back to the mother ship is called for.

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

It's internal. Hand / trigger / sear problem.

Tell them it's been back 3 times and these problems should not exist on a new gun. Ask for another as this one is a lemon.

You may not get a new gun but maybe they will fix it correctly this time.

 

[colt_saa]

I would do a quick check of the mainspring strain screw.

I can not imagine the hammer bouncing back if it is under full mainspring tension

 

[K1500]

Lock Failure on 329pd

O.K, I think I have it figured it out. It appears to be a 'lock failure'. The only way I can get the hammer to tie up like it did at the range is to cock the hammer, let it down, and then ease it back up while pushing the locking flag towards the hammer with my fingernail. When I do this the lock flag pops out to the side and ties the hammer up about halfway down.

It seems to me the hammer is bouncing backwards after firing while the trigger is still depressed. During recoil, the lock occasionally bounces out to the right and ties the gun up. This is why the cylinder doesn't revolve and the hammer ends up on an empty chamber. I have tried to replicate this on a M60 with a lock, and can't get it to happen.

Does anyone know if it is normal for the hammer to bounce backward after firing? It seems possible to be, as the firing pin would be running back at the hammer and can cause the bounce. It does have a longer firing pin in it from S&W, to cure failure to fire problems. The strain screw is tight.

I don't know if sending it back to S&W would help, since they will just install a new lock. Perhaps the lock in my gun is out of spec or out of place.

 

[rburg]

I don't know if sending it back to S&W would help, since they will just install a new lock. Perhaps the lock in my gun is out of spec or out of place.

Any lock on your gun is out of place. The correct place for it and all its flags and springs is in a ziplock bag. That bag in the original blue box, along with a fired case if any, and the stupid padlock if it was supplied.

 

[s&wchad]

Sounds like a trip back to the mother ship is called for.

Tell them it's been back 3 times and these problems should not exist on a new gun. Ask for another as this one is a lemon.

You may not get a new gun but maybe they will fix it correctly this time.

Excellent advice. I'd suggest detailing the specific load and the nature of the malfunctions that occurred in your letter that accompanies the gun back. It might be a good idea to not diagnose the problem in discussions with them.

 

[dla]

All,

I just got back from my most recent range trip with my newly repaired 329pd. The trigger was not resetting 100% of the time, so I sent it back to Smith. Now the trigger resets, but it has a new problem.

Each time I loaded the revolver and fired it, on the first shot a strange malfunction occurred. The hammer appeared to 'bounce back' to a position halfway between at rest and cocked. The 'half-cocked' hammer was over the empty chamber. I had to either cock the hammer fully (which required more force than normal) or pull the trigger, dropping the hammer (which also required more force than normal).

Either way the malfunction was cleared, the cylinder did not rotate and the hammer would fall on the previously fired chamber. This happened twice out of 15 rounds fired, both times on the first shot. I was using WW 240gr white box 44 mag ammo, and I take a very firm grip.

Has anyone heard of a malfunction like this? What could be the possible cause/ remedy to this problem. To be truthful, the gun has been back to Smith 3 times already, and I am about to give up. Any advice you can give is appreciated. Thanks.

I understand the frustration: spend the extra money and have to send it back to Massatucky to get it to run. I was very frustrated having to send my 329pd back over light primer strikes.

But I provided a very detailed writeup, including pictures, and S&W Customer service made it right. My turn time was 9 days and that was 200 trouble-free rounds ago.

My first suspicion is that the ILS is partially engaging - a problem I haven't had(yet). The lock appears easy to remove, from the writeups I've seen, but again I understand the frustration from paying S&W price and getting less than Taurus quality. If you send it back, a detailed writeup is a must because S&W is not going to burn a box of ammo trying to find a problem.

Keep us posted on how this plays out.






https://sites.google.com/site/hobbyhintstricksideas/Home/s-w-329pd-info

 

[blueknight7]

As a retired cop, with 30 years out there, the only lock I have ever really needed was, my trigger finger, connected to my brain. Yes, I started long before auto's were ever considered a duty weapon in Law Enforcement.
My 329PD is ILS'less. I carry it every day for things that bite out here. My 329PD had to go back home for ILS trouble too, and they replaced the frame. If they would have just taken the thing out to begin with, it would probably still have the orginal frame.
I understand the liability, and I understand what I am willing to accept by disabling the ILS. Personally, I would take the ILS out, and save the trip. Yes, it will bounce the hammer to about half cock, and tie up the weapon.

 

[K1500]

Well, it still does it with the lock out and I can replicate it by manipulating the hammer and trigger (while the gun is empty). Back to S&W for the 4th time.

 

[44Steve]

Hi,Steve here. First of all ,is the ammo factory for sure . What do the primers look like.Are there any lines on the clyinder parallel with the cartridge holes.Just something to look at. Still sounds mechanical.

 

[K1500]

I'll check the spent brass when I get home.

I can manually duplicate the problem by cocking the hammer to full cock and dropping the hammer on an empty chamber. While continuing to hold the trigger back, I can thumb the hammer approximately ¾ of the way back and slowly lower it while releasing the trigger. This takes will tie the gun up.

I believe that my finger is momentarily coming off the trigger under recoil and then reengaging the trigger at the precise time the hammer is returning from the hammer bounce.

Is this a normal condition of the lockwork? That is, should I be able to tie the gun up by manipulating it as above? I couldn't get my 617 to tie up that way, no matter how I manipulated the trigger. I believe that 500 Magnum Nut is correct on this one. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks.

 

[K1500]

In trying to tie other S&W's up in the same manner, the only one that I could get to tie up was my 629-4. I have thousands of rounds through this one without any trouble.

I just want to make sure it isn't 'user error' on my part. Perhaps I should pull the trigger harder?

 

[dla]

I'll check the spent brass when I get home.

I can manually duplicate the problem by cocking the hammer to full cock and dropping the hammer on an empty chamber. While continuing to hold the trigger back, I can thumb the hammer approximately ¾ of the way back and slowly lower it while releasing the trigger. This takes will tie the gun up.

I believe that my finger is momentarily coming off the trigger under recoil and then reengaging the trigger at the precise time the hammer is returning from the hammer bounce.

Is this a normal condition of the lockwork? That is, should I be able to tie the gun up by manipulating it as above? I couldn't get my 617 to tie up that way, no matter how I manipulated the trigger. I believe that 500 Magnum Nut is correct on this one. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks.

Interesting. I just tried what you said and I was able to get the hammer to hang up if I did it just right. It clears by pulling the hammer back again. I think I also had this happen to me once at the range, now that I think about it. But this was when I was first learning to deal with the recoil - I haven't done it since and I'm at about 400 rounds now. Hope this helps.

 

[NE450No2]

I carried a S&W revolver as a work gun for several years, starting in the mid 1970's.

You can cause this condition "on purpose" in many S&W's, that will function 100% when fired normally.

Also this condition, and another, where the cylinder will rotate without the hammer comming back, can be caused when you pull the trigger after not letting the trigger come fully foward.

This trigger problem is enhanced when the trigger return spring is shortened, a common practice "back in the day" when doing an action job.

After a Police Officers S&W revolver locked up in a South Texas city durring a shooting, there was a lawsuit against S&W.

S&W then issued a memo to Police Armours that all trigger rebound springs should be left at factory specs.

Many of us had to replace the trigger return springs in our duty guns because of our "action jobs" originaly done by Dept. Armours.

One thing to remember about any revolver is that it is a Mechanical Device, and must be operated properly to function...

And also since it IS a Mechanical Device IT must function properly.


Putting a Lock device into the internal workings of a gun is a very bad idea, IMHO.