kbm6893
Member
Saw one near me. Decent shape. No rust or much blue loss. Grips don't match the gun and there's a number engraved on the back strap. Probably a cop gun. I have other Model 10's but no pre Model 10.
$350 Fair Price Pre Model 10?
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Kid Shileen
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In today's market.Yes. Don't turn your back. It won't be there when you turn around.
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I believe that is a good price if there are no mechanical problems with it.
$350 out the door for the most common 4" barrel length was a good price a few years ago. In the current buying panic it might be a steal?
Some of the members here prefer "pre-Model 10" be defined as a short action revolver that only differs from a Model 10 by lacking the Model 10 stamp. What does it mean in this case? In equal condition the older it is the more it is worth. IMO early post war or long action M&Ps, which some members call transitional M&Ps, are worth significantly more than short action versions. Also 2" snub noses are worth more than longer barrel versions. Generally, the further back you go in time the smaller proportion of M&P/Model 10 production were snub noses.
Some of the members here prefer "pre-Model 10" be defined as a short action revolver that only differs from a Model 10 by lacking the Model 10 stamp. What does it mean in this case? In equal condition the older it is the more it is worth. IMO early post war or long action M&Ps, which some members call transitional M&Ps, are worth significantly more than short action versions. Also 2" snub noses are worth more than longer barrel versions. Generally, the further back you go in time the smaller proportion of M&P/Model 10 production were snub noses.
DWalt
Member
Most collectors reserve the "pre-Model 10" terminology for those made between 1948 and 1958 having short actions, or, those having a C-prefix SN up to around C 430xxx. But a few in the very high S-series also qualify. $350 is OK for an M&P of any age in fairly good condition. Regarding the term "Transitional", I do not use it. Far too vague, as it means different things to different people. Regarding those made in the early post-WWII period (1946-48) having long actions, I believe it is better to just call them "Post-WWII" M&Ps. Some might even call them "pre-pre-Model 10s."
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I'm soaking it in automatic transmission fluid now. Didn't take the whole gun down. Just removed the sideplate and cylinder. Looks pretty clean in there. I just prefer to look under the hood of a used gun. You're right, the serial number is under the barrel. Looks like 1945 manufacture?
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
If it's in decent shape, that's a very good deal for a post-war S-series M&P from 1946.
If it is indeed a 4" barrel, the number on the backstrap is very likely a shield number from NYPD. The location and number of digits fits, and NYPD bought large batches in 1946 when S&W resumed shipping the commercial version. Jack may have a more precise idea.
That would be great! I'm retired NYPD and I'd love to own one from way back in the day.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but joining the SWCA would allow me to request that info, but if I wanted the actual letter, I would have to order one?
Gun was $376 out the door, by the way.
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
As a SWCA member, Roy would get you the ship month and year, and maybe drop a hint whether it's worth lettering, but for the actual destination you'd need to pay the (reduced member) cost for the letter.
PS: Your photos just popped up. I'm going to walk back a bit on the NYPD number. They stamped theirs with individual number dies; yours look maybe electro-penciled?
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Here is the best example I could find; this NYPD shield number is confirmed on a 1952 lettered Colt OP.
Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Home Page - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come
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Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Home Page - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come
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Attachments
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Here is the best example I could find; this NYPD shield number is confirmed on a 1952 lettered Colt OP.
Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Home Page - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come
.
Your number certainly looks neater than mine.
DWalt
Member
S846515 would date its shipment at around October 1946. NYPD got quite a few in the S842xxx to S848xxx SN range shipped to them at that time, 10/11/46. The main thing a letter would do is verify if it was a NYPD gun or not - if that information is worth $100 to you to find out. Given that it is in the correct SN range and has what may well be a badge number applied, it probably is a NYPD gun. The probability is boosted by the heavy wear on the grip panels typical of being carried a great deal. It would not be too difficult to find a better pair of period-correct Magna grips if you keep looking on eBay. That "sharp shoulder" style was used into the early 1950s. For a letter, see:
Smith & Wesson Collectors Association
Smith & Wesson Collectors Association
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Texas Star
US Veteran
Quit worrying what collectors call it and buy it as a sound used .38 before some member of the public does.
You can decide if it's pre, post or intermediate something later.
But that number may denote an evidence gun, not a badge number. Looks pretty crude.
You can decide if it's pre, post or intermediate something later.
But that number may denote an evidence gun, not a badge number. Looks pretty crude.
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Very likely shipped in October, 1946. See my comments below.
That was SOP until the mid-1950s. The serial number also will be in three more locations, besides the two you mentioned.
Also, the serial number, minus the S, will be on the inside of the right stock panel, if the stocks are original.
I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss this as an NYPD badge number. Granted, it doesn't match the style I've seen on most NYPD revolvers, including one in my collection and the one illustrated by Absalom.
However, S846572, which is a confirmed NYPD revolver, has badge number 13819 on the back strap. That gun shipped from Springfield on October 11, 1946. It's even money yours was in the same shipment. S846463 was also in that shipment.
Those two bracket your serial number nicely, and the badge number being so close is, to my mind, pretty strong evidence this gun was used in NY.
All in all, this is a heckova buy for a mere $350.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
This may just be the lighting, but the more I look at the photo of the backstrap on your gun, the more it looks to me like the surface texture indicates some heavy buffing. Since these revolvers were sold to new officers, not issued as department property, it is not unheard of for guns to be passed on upon quitting or retiring, to save some money. Maybe someone buffed out an old shield number and home-inscribed a new one.
Maybe, but why would the shield number be so close to the others mentioned. I don't know how it used to work, but shield numbers used to be pretty random when I came on. I had a 4 digit, my partner had a 5 digit, and one guy I worked with had a 2 digit! We all went through the academy together. He used to be the one to catch a complaint from a member of the public. 2 digit number easiest to remember!
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