3566tsw pistol

bradaz11

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Hi,
I have been offered a 3566 pistol in what looks to be unfired condition. It's a very low serial number tsw00xx it looks to be a full size frame

Can anyone give me some more info on this gun? I don't know much about s&w semi autos or their naming convention. Is this frame shared by other guns?
Am I limited on what mags will work in this gun? After some reading up on the caliber it looks like I have options with reloading, especially if I don't want to copy the original loadings and am happy just loading to normal 9mm velocities (not least because I can't shoot as hot as full power 357mag on the nicer indoor range).
Would I struggle to find spare parts for this gun?
Basically I don't want to buy a paperweight

Thanks
 
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It's called a Performance Ctr 3566 LIMITED, .356TSW

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What all comes with yours?

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I have been offered a 3566 pistol in what looks to be unfired condition. It's a very low serial number tsw00xx it looks to be a full size frame.

Does it look like this?

3566 Limited, 5" bbl.

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Is this frame shared by other guns?

No
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Am I limited on what mags will work in this gun?

No. M5906 magazines will work & are easily found.
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Would I struggle to find spare parts for this gun?

Minor parts No. Major & unique parts Yes.
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After some reading up on the caliber it looks like I have options with reloading, especially if I don't want to copy the original loadings and am happy just loading to normal 9mm velocities (not least because I can't shoot as hot as full power 357mag on the nicer indoor range).

The 356TSW (9x21.5mm) brass is not currently being produced. It has been in the recent past & it may still be available from individuals that have some as surplus & for sale.

Otherwise you have to make it from 9x23mm brass which is long enough & strong enough (50K psi).

An option would be to buy a 9x19 Briley barrel ($300) for it (at bottom of picture above). If you go that route make sure, before you pay for it, that you have an understanding/agreement on your options if the fit is not to your satisfaction.
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Basically I don't want to buy a paperweight.

If you can get it for a price you can live with it's a very unique & limited model that's superbly made.

It's cartridge is it's biggest plus & it's biggest minus.

If it's in good shape it's unlikely you will need parts for it, beyond springs & mags, for a long time.
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Can anyone give me some more info on this gun? I don't know much about s&w semi autos or their naming convention.


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Earl Minot at Lew Horton told me, when I inquired about mine, that there were (517) Limiteds producted for them, as well as (386) Compacts, for a total of (903) 3566s.

I've seen others repeat that same figure from him too though in a letter someone posted from Roy Jinks he said there were a total of (813) 3566s producted and he could not supply the total of each model at that time. I tend to believe Lew Horton's record keeping over S&W's.

Mine (TSW00xx) was made in July 1993.
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Yes, it's plenty accurate. :)
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Thank you, that is a fantastic, informative post.
The brilley barrel isn't really an option for me. As I'm in the UK, it's all around how special and unique the gun is, sticking a 9mm barrel in it kinda makes it less special, they aren't concerned about it's usability by me. I'll check on that brass availability
 
Phenomenal post by BLUEDOT37 but then again, if you hang out around here, you've come to expect that! :D

I'll make just one slight correction and add a small take...
Can anyone give me some more info on this gun? I don't know much about s&w semi autos or their naming convention. Is this frame shared by other guns?

Would I struggle to find spare parts for this gun?
Basically I don't want to buy a paperweight
This model was released in 1993 and I have argued in the past (and will again! :D) that outside of the freakishly limited full customs (that are almost literally NEVER seen) and arguably the Briley Comp (which I have never handled) that the 3566 Limited, when lined up against absolutely every other Performance Center pistol that that PC ever produced, could very be crowned THE finest. And certainly not by a huge margin, but just by a bit.

This is to say that all the PC semiauto pistols are phenomenal, but the 5 and 6-inch "Limited" target guns are the best, and of those... the 3566 Limited may be the single finest.

This pistol does in fact share a frame with one other model, and that is the PPC-9. The PPC-9 came in a few different flavors, there was the two different 5-inch guns, one with the short dust cover and square muzzle, and the more plentiful and traditional one that looks much like the 3566 Limited. The PPC-9 was also offered with a 6-inch long slide and barrel, and the WISCHO Target Champion 9mm series was a re-named PPC-9 for the European market, these guns often had wood Nill stocks and a more traditional Bomar style rear sight where the PPC-9 has the "advanced" Aristocrat rear sight and taller front sight.

Would you struggle to find parts? Well... I can't imagine which parts we are talking about. I'll start this way... if you damage the gun or wear it out, then you certainly have a problem. S&W can't honestly help and as a hardcore, knee-deep enthusiast of these guns (these are the absolute center of my interest, bar none), I would investigate nearly any/every avenue before I even considered asking S&W for help. I personally believe that S&W wouldn't recognize this pistol if you shipped it to them, and I'll leave it at that. These are my OPINIONS, and not being yelled out as fact.

If you broke a small internal part... let's say an ejector, extractor, magazine catch, etc etc... not a huge worry there as these are typical 3rd Gen parts (for the most part!) and a billion of these parts exist from many sources. (ugh, yes, even S&W has some)

If you damaged the frame the or barrel or the slide, you would be up the creek. You would need to investigate a true craftsman gunsmith and there would be a period of inspection and discussion before embarking on ideas for a solution.

I am not the timid type. I would rather spend my money on a great old used gun and take the risk of a problem with no recourse than to purchase newly made junk. That's just me.

Will this gun be a paperweight? Well, you said it looks to be unfired. I have a 3566 Limited that was used in competition. I don't know how much, for how long, and I don't know if the guy who sold it to me bought it new or used. (I'm gonna ask him the next time I see him, he's a helluva nice guy! ;)) and I also have a 5-inch PPC-9 which is nearly but not exactly the same thing and that pistol has a documented 6,286 rounds through it minimum (it has more than that, but that number is certain minimum) and it shoots like a house afire, it is TIGHT, it's feel is INSPIRING, it's accuracy is FANTASTIC, it's trigger is SUBLIME and I could continue but I'll need to dig out a thesaurus.

What could you shoot in this pistol, as it is chambered for .356 TS&W, which is 9mm x 21.5mm...? Well, you could buy .356 TS&W brass and load your own, and this brass is available right now on Gunbroker. You could also buy new old stock .356 TS&W ammo, also to be found at the same place. 9x21 brass might work? As for handloading, I would not use standard 9x19 brass but we have another frequent poster here that will hopefully add his thoughts and suggestions as he has been there and done it. (poster colt_saa)

As suggested by BLUEDOT37, check out Scott Sullivan's Briley conversion barrels, also found on Gunbroker. You could put a 9x19 barrel in it, but I also agree with BLUEDOT37 in that I'm not sure about the best way to make sure it fits as perfectly as the original.

To wrap this up:
It is my opinion that if you purchased a nearly new or mint or possibly unfired 3566 Limited, you might be purchasing one of the absolute finest semi-auto pistols that Smith & Wesson ever made, ever, truly ever.

I cannot imagine any situation where that is a paperweight and if you do buy it and it troubles you, go ahead and send me a PM and we'll talk money. For the right money, I'd love to have another.
 
another great post

Thank you, between yourself and Bluedot, I was convinced. I've put a 50% deposit down, now just got to convince the police and gvmt that this meets the requirements to own. I can see no reason why not as under rarity, it's a niche calibre, and under 1000 made. It's certainly got history.

Just waiting on pics from the dealer for it.

Re gunbroker, I've not had much luck in the past buying brass due to itar, my understanding is brass is now not restricted, but I suppose most sellers won't care. Ammo to the UK is ano go.
Brownells UK list starling 9mm largo, but it seems a bit pricey to me, but that might be the best option

Stuart
 
More questions. Sorry. With it being low serial, did s&w serial in order or would they reserve certain numbers to come back to? Say it was tsw0010 would that mean it's the 10th produced, or might they have kept the first block off 10 aerials for special guns?
 
S&W has done lots of different things with blocks of SN’s and I have seen (and will continue to see) some sellers with some theories that seem to suggest their example should be more highly regarded, but where the 3566 Limited is concerned, I see no distinction in any serial number compared to any other.

Your pistol is quite likely to be different from mine and from BLUEDOT37’s pistol in that yours will show 2 or 3 or 4 little proofmarks that were added outside the factory that we don’t have.
 
It seems there are no proof marks on it, the other reason it is assumed it is unfired
 
That’s interesting.

I don’t even begin to know what all the different European countries require... but I can tell you that I’ve seen dozens of WISCHO Performance Center guns and I’ve not seen any without 2-3-4 proofmarks.
 
Well I'll be arranging a time to get a better look at it soon. It seems it was held by a dealer who collects. And taken on by another after the 1st either died or needed cash. My dealer was a bit vague and I didn't press. But in the UK, you only need proof to sell. Transfers between dealers do not require proof. There is also the ability to have a proofed gun released with a certificate of proof, rather than stamping the gun. It is another thing that will need to be discussed if I'm granted authority to purchase. As legally it will need to be proofed before I can take ownership. But the proof houses in the UK aren't known for their careful handling of guns or neat marking. Plus I would need to supply some ammo for them I would imagine
 
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What does WISCHO stand for?

Also, is 9x23 9mm largo or 9x23 Winchester or super comp? I'm really starting to get confused here
 
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I can’t say what WISCHO stands for but I’ll be someone chimes in. It is the European wholesaler/distributor for S&W guns in Europe. At least it was, not sure if they still are.

You might have an AWFUL job ahead of you to obtain factory .356 TS&W for your authorities to be able to proof-test that pistol if you cannot import ammo.

I would guess (all I can possibly do is guess) that there is probably zero boxes of .356 TS&W ammo in all of Great Britain.

We are talking about ammo that has been out of production since the 1990’s (except for a tiny bit that a couple small boutique ammo makers made more recently) and we are talking about ammo that was factory chambered for maybe FIVE models ever made (all S&W and nobody else) and guns that haven’t been made since the 1990’s and we are talking about a European nation where personal gun ownership is extremely rare.

I think this story is likely to have a sad ending.
 
Honest answer is I don't know, BUT I have had a bp muzzle loader fitted with shotgun primer nipple's, proofed for nitro powder. I supplied the powder and ball. Then told them the charge I wanted to load and they proofed it at that. So I assume they did their test at a % of load above that. I expect that if it was too be proofed they would want a case, a powder choice and a load. Then would go X amount over it. That is my guess anyway. I think it will help my dealer send to have a very good relationship with the proof house
 
Recent Auction

Thank you, that is a fantastic, informative post.
The brilley barrel isn't really an option for me. As I'm in the UK, it's all around how special and unique the gun is, sticking a 9mm barrel in it kinda makes it less special, they aren't concerned about it's usability by me. I'll check on that brass availability

Here’s a post from a recent auction. So a few made it to Europe.

SMITH & WESSON 3566 TSW 356 TSW PC TWO TONE w/ BOX & 9mm BARREL NO RESERVE - Semi Auto Pistols at GunBroker.com : 864624577

The timing for the .356TSW wasn’t good, would things be different if they were to call it, 9mmm, 9 millimeter magnum??

The caliber and the two-tone coloring are certainly unique. The ability to be able to go to the range and shoot two different calibers out of the same gun, that isn’t unique?? This certainly isn’t taking a .357magnum to the range and switching between that and .38special. These are hand crafted works of art.

Joe
 

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I purchased new ammunition from Underwood Ammo.

356 TSW 115 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
356 TSW 115 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point
AMMO ID SYSTEM

BRAND:UNDERWOOD AMMO

SKU:158

TECHNICAL INFORMATION
Caliber: 356 TSW
Bullet Weight: 115 Grains
Bullet Style: Nosler Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass
BALLISTICS INFORMATION
Muzzle Velocity: 1600 fps
Muzzle Energy: 654 ft lbs
$19.99
2 reviewsRead Reviews

I have not fired any yet but the quality looks good.
 
Thanks, but I can't have hollow point pistol ammo full stop, and it's not worth trying to import ammo to the UK of it were ball. I just need brass
 
356TSW load data

But in the UK, you only need proof to sell. Transfers between dealers do not require proof. There is also the ability to have a proofed gun released with a certificate of proof, rather than stamping the gun. It is another thing that will need to be discussed if I'm granted authority to purchase. As legally it will need to be proofed before I can take ownership. But the proof houses in the UK aren't known for their careful handling of guns or neat marking. Plus I would need to supply some ammo for them I would imagine

I remembered a post from a gentleman from Belgium, Lewieke, that had a similar issue getting his Super 9 & it's 356TSW barrel tested & approved.

His related posts start with post #97 & finishes on post #110 in this forum thread. link: 5906 “Super 9” Information

If you need/use the load data listed in post #100 please see my warning/comment on it in post #149.

Maybe there's something here that can help.


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Thanks bluedot, that was a nice read. The English proof houses don't seem to be that bad. I'll call my dealer later next week to confirm, but I don't see it being anywhere near the same issue as him. I hope anyway.
Very good point on that load data and a perfect example of never take what you read to be correct. I won't be able to load my ammo to full stoke loads anyway due to the range limits (1735 FPS @ 475 ft lbs which means I'm limited to about 1300 FPS with a 125gr bullet)
 
Hi

just an update to this, I have the permission from the police to buy it, but as suspected, the proofing is now the stumbling block.

does anyone have any actual legit, manufacturer supplied, load data for this ammo? or even any leads on where to go to hunt the info out?

I have sent emails to cor-bon, federal, apex and underwood.

any help would be appriciated
 

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