.357 125 grain JSP

[CCantu357]

Last week I bought a box of Remington UMC .357 125 grain soft points. They are rated at 1450fps just like the SJHPs. This load unusual to me, as most JSPs are 158 grain. The old Remington catalogs say that this load was desinged for law enforcment. Does anyone know how well the JSP bullet performs in this 125 grain loading?

 

[stansdds]

It is a non-expanding load, just like the 158 gr JSP. They are good for practice or if you need a non-expanding bullet for extra penetration depth or if you are somewhere that forbids the use of hollow point ammo.

 

[Psweigle]

They are fantastic for deer, especially from a rifle. I have no experience with that particular ammo, but i use 125gr semi jacketed soft points to reload for my deer rounds. And yes, they do expand. Hope this helps.

 

[Skeptic 9c]

Years ago the FBI determined the .357 Magnum 125 gr HP was the best manstopper ever. Considerable bullet development has been done since. These tests led to the creation of the 357 SIG (no decimal point) (TM). But now the ballistic ghods of the FBI have determined Hornady 9x19 mm is just as good and cheaper.
Geoff
Who has not felt disarmed with 9mm or .45 ACP or .38 Special for that matter.

 

[white cloud]

They are fantastic for deer, especially from a rifle. I have no experience with that particular ammo, but i use 125gr semi jacketed soft points to reload for my deer rounds. And yes, they do expand. Hope this helps.

Psweigle,

What brand of JSP have you used? I have been using the 158 grain XTP in a .357 with good results but might want to try the 125s. Do you get "pass throughs" on broadside shots? Thanks in advance.

 

[colt_saa]

Remington has offered SJSP, JSP and SJHP loadings for the 357 Magnum cartridge in 110 grain, 125 grain and 158 grain going back almost half a century now. It is just more common to fins Hollow Points stocked on the gun stores shelves these days

The Remington/UMC JSP loading in 125 grain is a nice Performer.

As already stated a JSP does not expand as much or as soon as a JHP of the same weight and construction. However, JSPs absolutely do expand. If you are in need of a non-expanding load than you want to use a FMJ

JSPs are usually better suited for taking game as opposed to personal defense. Unless of course you need to shoot through a door

I have chronographed this Remington factory load from many different firearms. Most velocities listed below are from 2 or more strings of five shots averaged from 2 or more different examples of the same model firearm

From the 2 1/8" Model 640 this load hits an average of 1242 FPS. Not too bad for a pocket gun

The 2 1/2" 19/66s hit 1287 FPS

The 3" Model 60 Pro yields 1298 FPS while the 3" Model 60 Small Hunter gave us 1322 FPS

In the 4" Model 27 it averages 1391 FPS.

From the 5" 627s this hit 1496 FPS as the average

The 10" T/C Contender hit 1776 FPS.

Someone mentioned a rifle. In a 18" 1892 lever action the round achieves 2049 FPS

So the factory claim, is not too far off from reality

I also hand load the 125 JSP in the 357 Magnum Cartridge.

This is one of my favorite weight projectiles to shoot. Over the decades I have gone through many tens of thousands of this load in various firearms.

 

[colt_saa]

Years ago the FBI determined the .357 Magnum 125 gr HP was the best manstopper ever. Considerable bullet development has been done since. These tests led to the creation of the 357 SIG (no decimal point) (TM). But now the ballistic ghods of the FBI have determined Hornady 9x19 mm is just as good and cheaper.
Geoff
Who has not felt disarmed with 9mm or .45 ACP or .38 Special for that matter.

Actually, the FBI did not make any of these determinations. The FBI only compiled the statistics from actual shootings and let the results speak for themselves.

The Remington 125 grain SJHP has always been the #1 best single shot, man-stopper on record.

The only reason that the 9MM and other calibers have been gaining on the Remington 125 grain SJHP's reputation is that LOTS less Law Enforcement Officers are carrying those Remington 357 Magnums these days.

So the actual count of firefights that are stopped by 9MM has increased over the last few decades while the number of 357 Magnum firefights has dwindled away to tiny numbers

Yes, projectile design has improved over the years and that has gone a long way toward the re-acceptance of the 9MM Parabellum cartridge for use in the Law Enforcement world. However, you must remember that those smae projectile improvements have been applied to the 357 Magnum and other projectiles improving their capability as well.

 

[EMP3]

Years ago the FBI determined the .357 Magnum 125 gr HP was the best manstopper ever. Considerable bullet development has been done since. These tests led to the creation of the 357 SIG (no decimal point) (TM). But now the ballistic ghods of the FBI have determined Hornady 9x19 mm is just as good and cheaper.
Geoff
Who has not felt disarmed with 9mm or .45 ACP or .38 Special for that matter.

Where's your reference for this claim.

It's the first I've heard of it.

 

[Nevada Ed]

The SP design bullet is a very good hunting bullet and with enough
fps, it will expand on deer size game and really go to a large Dia. if it
hits a shoulder or main bone.


The little 125gr SP does well with its high speeds for small game and 200 yard "Yotes" if you can get a shot off.

Some revolvers shoot the SP design better than the JHP.
You just need to see what your weapon likes but the SP is usually
cheaper in price, which is a good thing.

In my 686 6", I wind my 158 JSP up to 1340fps for deer or larger animals that need shooting.

 

[Muddog13]

I'm going to borrow some figures here, if I may....

Remington has offered SJSP, JSP and SJHP loadings for the 357 Magnum cartridge in 110 grain, 125 grain and 158 grain going back almost half a century now. It is just more common to fins Hollow Points stocked on the gun stores shelves these days

The Remington/UMC JSP loading in 125 grain is a nice Performer.

As already stated a JSP does not expand as much or as soon as a JHP of the same weight and construction. However, JSPs absolutely do expand. If you are in need of a non-expanding load than you want to use a FMJ

JSPs are usually better suited for taking game as opposed to personal defense. Unless of course you need to shoot through a door

I have chronographed this Remington factory load from many different firearms. Most velocities listed below are from 2 or more strings of five shots averaged from 2 or more different examples of the same model firearm

From the 2 1/8" Model 640 this load hits an average of 1242 FPS. Not too bad for a pocket gun

The 2 1/2" 19/66s hit 1287 FPS

The 3" Model 60 Pro yields 1298 FPS while the 3" Model 60 Small Hunter gave us 1322 FPS

In the 4" Model 27 it averages 1391 FPS.

From the 5" 627s this hit 1496 FPS as the average

The 10" T/C Contender hit 1776 FPS.

Someone mentioned a rifle. In a 18" 1892 lever action the round achieves 2049 FPS

So the factory claim, is not too far off from reality

I also hand load the 125 JSP in the 357 Magnum Cartridge.

This is one of my favorite weight projectiles to shoot. Over the decades I have gone through many tens of thousands of this load in various firearms.

Now that I borrowed a few speed averages, Historically speaking, the 38 started out life as the 38 Short Colt for use in converted 1851 Colt Navy open top revolvers, using 125 grain LRN . This sounds like a good round for use in handloaded 38 Short Colt and Long Colt Cartridges, based on the speeds listed above.
The Remington loads mentioned above do not supply info on the powder type used , but Hornady's reloading data center gives some indications.

Reloading Data Center – Hodgdon Reloading Data Center

Browsing cartriges and powder loads behind the rounds can give you a rough idea of the performance you might see bearing in mind Hornady's choice of fire arm used to test their loads. For a rule of thumb, tho, the speed indications for X powders offered is in the ball park.

Handy load for sport shooting in cowboy 3 gun competitions, AND a bit less expensive on occasion than some heavier loads I'd seen, in addition to everything else mentioned above. Nice multi purpose bullet overall, and a viable load for some of us wallet aware types.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

In addition to a comment re: the Lazarus-like resurrection of this thread I would suggest it could also get a rise out of the K-frame forcing cone damage aficionados as well...?

Imagine: someone actually shooting factory ammo out of a Model 19!

Cheers!

P.S. OK: a 125gr JSP from a 38 Colt (Short or Long), but at what fps? Is it going to expand?

 

[Muddog13]

LOL.

LAUGH OUT LOUD... Seen days like that.

 

[Skeet 028]

I have a few boxes of the 125 JSP Remington. It shoots really well out of both my 3 1/2 in and 5 inch 27s. But it does expand well...better out of the 5 inch. Never shot it out of my 94 Win rifle. Ought to try that. Oh it is very loud like most 357s out of revolvers Did anyone notice the bullets have concave bases addressed in another thread. I also have quite a few reloading bullets too

 

[Muddog13]

In addition to a comment re: the Lazarus-like resurrection of this thread I would suggest it could also get a rise out of the K-frame forcing cone damage aficionados as well...?

Imagine: someone actually shooting factory ammo out of a Model 19!

Cheers!

P.S. OK: a 125gr JSP from a 38 Colt (Short or Long), but at what fps? Is it going to expand?

Most soft points usually do expand well. the threshold for Soft points is usually lower than hollow points. "By the Book",
using Clay's, my power on hand, you get:

38 Long Colt

Twist: 1:16.000" Barrel Length: 7.500" Trim Length: 1.012"
Bullet: 125 GR. LRN Diameter: 0.358" Case: Starline
2.0 grains 631 FPS 2.5 GR. 765 FPS
Sub sonic loads from a 7 inch barrel, but you should pick up a bit more out to a 10 inch barrel. The extra leagth allows ALL the powder to burn, increasing velocity as well with a longer compression time. AT 16 or 20 inch lengths, you should be near 1100 or 1200 FPS.
Bear in mind, that's what the company decided to test, and apparently, lever actions never occured to them. Personally, I look forward to trying these out in my Rossi .357 20 inch later in the month. The catch is going to be finding any in stores near payday. These usually sell out fast, so if popularity is any gage...
a AN Alternative there's non jacketed 125 grain FP. Just finished molding a batch of 30 a half hour ago...

 

[Muddog13]

Sorry if that was long winded.
Between looking up info, I don't own a chrono at this time, and being an entheusist with a new hunting rifle, I can go overboard on occasion.

 

[Doug M.]

Some agencies shot JSP because of the political outcry (whining) about hollow point ammo. I suspect that the 125 grain JSPs are just as vigorous to shoot as the JHPs. Back in the day, I had that Remington 125 grain SJHP in my .357. They were rank. Every test I ever saw of them (this is well before ballistic gelatin) showed big flash, a fearsome crack/boom, and serious terminal impact on whatever test medium was used. The JSP was as unpleasant to shoot, but not as good of a performer.

 

[Skeet 028]

Not quite as hot as the older ammo but the newer bunch that I have are still loudenboomers and very effective. I shot a smaller coyote here with the 5 inch 27 with the 125s and it was not a sellable fur...believe me

 

[tomhenry]

As an aside, I don't remember where I got this, but it's an interesting read.

The 125 grain bullets driven to maximum velocities used large charges of relatively slow-burning powders. Handloaders know the powder types as WW296 and H-110, among others. The combination of slow ball-type powders and the short bearing surface of the 125 bullets allows prolonged gas cutting of the forcing cone and top strap area, accelerating erosion and wear.

Borescope studies of rifle, machine gun, and auto cannon chamber throats shows a lizzard-skin-like texture due to this gas cutting damage, called "brinelling". The results of brinelling are fine microcracks that weaken the surface of the steel, and further promote erosion. In machine guns and auto cannons, barrel life is measured in terms of "useable accuracy", and round counts that determine this are based on group sizes at engagement ranges.

In the K-frame magnums, the forcing cone dimensions combined with the barrel shank dimensions results in a relatively thin shank at the 6 o'clock position, where a machine cut is made to clear the crane. This is usually where the forcing cone cracks. The L and N frames use much beefier barrel shanks and do not have this cut. S&W intended the K frame magnums to be "carried much and fired seldom" service arms, designed to fire .38 Specials indefinitely, with light to moderate use of .357 Magnums. You notice that S&W has discontinued production of K frame .357 magnums, no doubt due to product liability issues and a couple generations of K frame magnum experience.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

An excellent article about Handlloading the 38 Colt Short for Competition can be found at the ssusa.org site (that's NRA related, btw) from July of 2023.

Cheers!

P.S. If one can get a 125gr projectile going 1100 fps out of a 20" barrel with 2.5gr of 231 in a 38 Colt Short case, just IMAGINE how fast that bugger would be going out of a 26" barrel!. (If it made it out of the barrel...?)

 

[WR Moore]

As an aside, I don't remember where I got this, but it's an interesting read.

In the K-frame magnums, the forcing cone dimensions combined with the barrel shank dimensions results in a relatively thin shank at the 6 o'clock position, where a machine cut is made to clear the crane. This is usually where the forcing cone cracks. The L and N frames use much beefier barrel shanks and do not have this cut. S&W intended the K frame magnums to be "carried much and fired seldom" service arms, designed to fire .38 Specials indefinitely, with light to moderate use of .357 Magnums. You notice that S&W has discontinued production of K frame .357 magnums, no doubt due to product liability issues and a couple generations of K frame magnum experience.

While a decent description of barrel/forcing cone erosion and the location of K frame magnum barrel failure, S&W did NOT discontinue production of K frame .357 Magnum revolvers. They did, however, introduce the L frame to take care of the problems resulting from mandated continuous use of full power duty ammo for all law enforcement training.

When the model 19 was developed, use of .38 Spl ammunition (including wadcutter target ammo) was common for all training and qualification. In some cases, even for duty use. Later, that became unaccepable.