.357 load for deer
- Thread starter beagleye
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With my old 6" M19 and a 158 lead Swc bullet. I could get 1320fps with my full load of Unique.
Wiith my 6" 686 with a 158 XTP 2400 powder would get me 1340fps.
With a 4" barrel I would try to hold my shots to 75 yards if you can place your shots in the vitals, with the reduced enegy's.
Good hunting.
Wiith my 6" 686 with a 158 XTP 2400 powder would get me 1340fps.
With a 4" barrel I would try to hold my shots to 75 yards if you can place your shots in the vitals, with the reduced enegy's.
Good hunting.
OP
beagleye
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I will keep shots to a very modest distance, 25 yards is a distance that sounds good on paper. Wounding or loosing a deer is a cruddy feeling.
I have a ton of 158 XTPs. And 2400 is a favorite, I haven't tried them together. 12 grains of 2400 and 158 SWC is my go to plinking load for that gun. It's like 38/44 classic load. Yes, good idea, 2400 and XTPs.
Have you taken deer with that bullet?
I have a ton of 158 XTPs. And 2400 is a favorite, I haven't tried them together. 12 grains of 2400 and 158 SWC is my go to plinking load for that gun. It's like 38/44 classic load. Yes, good idea, 2400 and XTPs.
Have you taken deer with that bullet?
I used the 158 XTP out of a .357 1894 Marlin carbine on a large doe (125 lbs is a good size doe in Ky), at about 75-80 yards. This was close to 30 years ago.
She was completely relaxed and totally broadside to me. I placed the bullet behind the shoulder for a double lung shot, not wanting to challenge the front shoulder plate with such a load.
She hit the ground immediately, but was struggling to to get back on her feet. I racked the lever quickly and put the second round right where I expected the heart to be. She expired pretty quickly thereafter.
However, I never tried that load, or the rifle, on another deer. I didn't feel that I had enough gun for a humane kill with my skill level, at that distance. While both rounds hit where intended, neither one was a pass through.
If I had been off a little bit, or she had moved suddenly, as they often times do, I don't believe that I would have had a blood trail to follow.
I think you are wise to keep the range within the 25 yard range. And do your best to avoid the shoulder. If I had had my 1894 scoped and sighted in confidently, I think a neck or head shot might have been better.
But either shot leaves room for error and a crippled deer you may never find. Nowadays I hunt whitetail with a Marlin 444, and it stops them in their tracks.
I'm through with blood trails and tracking deer myself. I wish you and the deer the best success in a clean kill. Practice, practice, practice,....... and keep the shot to bow range. You should be alright, just be prepared to shoot twice, if needed.
She was completely relaxed and totally broadside to me. I placed the bullet behind the shoulder for a double lung shot, not wanting to challenge the front shoulder plate with such a load.
She hit the ground immediately, but was struggling to to get back on her feet. I racked the lever quickly and put the second round right where I expected the heart to be. She expired pretty quickly thereafter.
However, I never tried that load, or the rifle, on another deer. I didn't feel that I had enough gun for a humane kill with my skill level, at that distance. While both rounds hit where intended, neither one was a pass through.
If I had been off a little bit, or she had moved suddenly, as they often times do, I don't believe that I would have had a blood trail to follow.
I think you are wise to keep the range within the 25 yard range. And do your best to avoid the shoulder. If I had had my 1894 scoped and sighted in confidently, I think a neck or head shot might have been better.
But either shot leaves room for error and a crippled deer you may never find. Nowadays I hunt whitetail with a Marlin 444, and it stops them in their tracks.
I'm through with blood trails and tracking deer myself. I wish you and the deer the best success in a clean kill. Practice, practice, practice,....... and keep the shot to bow range. You should be alright, just be prepared to shoot twice, if needed.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Lil'Gun gets very hot and heats up the barrel and forcing cone. I would not use it for range work but for a few shots hunting I think it's alright.
I tested a lot of different weight bullets when I was thinking about using my .357 Magnum levergun for hunting deer. (never did though) I settled on the Sierra 170gr JHC bullet. I got surprising velocity from them.
These numbers are from a levergun, not a revolver.
Using a 180gr Hornady XTP bullet:
15.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1584 fps
13.6gr W296 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1495 fps
Using a Cast Performance 180gr WFNGC bullet: (Hard Cast)
14.8gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1657 fps
13.7gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1547 fps
I also tried a 170gr Sierra JHC bullet and liked the results.
17.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1793 fps (that's amazing velocity!)
15.5gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1699 fps
Just to add some info for a 125gr Hornady XTP/HP bullet even though I didn't use Lil'Gun, the velocities were scary!
17.7gr 2400 - Win WSP primer - AV=2055 fps
22.0gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=2239 fps
Always check charge weights for yourself. Mistakes can and will happen.
I tested a lot of different weight bullets when I was thinking about using my .357 Magnum levergun for hunting deer. (never did though) I settled on the Sierra 170gr JHC bullet. I got surprising velocity from them.
These numbers are from a levergun, not a revolver.
Using a 180gr Hornady XTP bullet:
15.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1584 fps
13.6gr W296 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1495 fps
Using a Cast Performance 180gr WFNGC bullet: (Hard Cast)
14.8gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1657 fps
13.7gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1547 fps
I also tried a 170gr Sierra JHC bullet and liked the results.
17.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1793 fps (that's amazing velocity!)
15.5gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1699 fps
Just to add some info for a 125gr Hornady XTP/HP bullet even though I didn't use Lil'Gun, the velocities were scary!
17.7gr 2400 - Win WSP primer - AV=2055 fps
22.0gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=2239 fps
Always check charge weights for yourself. Mistakes can and will happen.
I never take a neck shot on a deer unless I have a rest and short distance and a back up shooter, with a rifle.
Open sights on a 6" revolver in the field, even with a 25 yard shot is "Iffy" with a neck shot.
The 158 XTP works but for some reason the 158 LSP design seems to drop them harder, for the deer that I have shot.
Pistols work but I prefer a rifle in wide open Nevada, to up my odds at getting meat on the table, vs the Eastern timber areas, where closer shots can happen 75% of the time.
Open sights on a 6" revolver in the field, even with a 25 yard shot is "Iffy" with a neck shot.
The 158 XTP works but for some reason the 158 LSP design seems to drop them harder, for the deer that I have shot.
Pistols work but I prefer a rifle in wide open Nevada, to up my odds at getting meat on the table, vs the Eastern timber areas, where closer shots can happen 75% of the time.
I have taken several deer with .44 magnum revolvers and in my opinion a 4".357 magnum revolver is a minimal gun for deer. Getting good velocity from a 4" .357 with jacketed 158 gr bullets is difficult to say the least. I remember a magazine article in which BP wrote about taking a deer with a 4" .357. He used a 158 gr cast SWC loaded to around 1350 FPS by using the old full power load of 15.5 grs of 2400 and a magnum primer. That's exactly what I would do if I went deer hunting with a 4" .357.
I agree, although the 357 Magnum is capable of taking deer at relatively short ranges, a 4 inch barreled revolver is not the best choice of firearm. The 4 inch barrel is not going to develop as much velocity as a 6 or 8 inch barrel and the 4 inch barrel has a short sight radius.
Pisgah
Member
Work up accurate loads with those components, approach maximums carefully and go for accuracy over speed, and you'll have good deer loads. In the hands of a good shooter, the .357 is more than adequate, even in a 4" barrel, as long as the hunter can get reasonably close and place his shots.
I've taken whitetail deer with a 4" S&W Model 28. It was a long time ago. I was using factory SuperVel 137 gr. JSP ammo. I like the penetration that the JSP gave. I would recommend that you limit the distance of your shots with a handgun to the distance you can reliably hit a paper plate.
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elpac3
Member
The 137 gr Super Vel used to be my favorite duty round - great load.
For white tails, I have used the 170 Keith cast (from Rim Rock bullets) with 13.5 of 2400 in my model 19. Good load, good penetration.
max503
Member
I don't have any 2400. I have Blue Dot and some IMR 4227. Also some SR 4759.
I might try out the Model 19/170 grain combo, and be real picky about my shots.
I only take shots at stones-throw distances.
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white cloud
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I have killed a number of whitetails with the 158 grain XTP HP out of a carbine. This load works well but I take my time and make precise shots. All shots have been "pass throughs" taking out both lungs. Maximum ranges for these deer would be 60 yards.
I have fired this load over a chronograph and get 1750 FPS out of a 16" barreled Marlin.
I have fired this load over a chronograph and get 1750 FPS out of a 16" barreled Marlin.
DGNY
Member
As do others, I admire beagleye for looking for information. Although a bit wide of the original inquiry, this link has interesting information on some factory velocities and/vs. barrel lengths, all part of the overall topic.
BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .357 Mag Results
Wishing the OP best of luck in his quest for ethical, effective loads for the field.
BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .357 Mag Results
Wishing the OP best of luck in his quest for ethical, effective loads for the field.
BearBio
Member
Whitetail or mulie==BIG difference!
JHP will penetrate through the lungs but wont with a hit on the shoulder if you pull your shoot or misjudge placement. For that reason I prefer SWC or JSP with as much 2400 or 4227 as you can accurately shoot.
John
John
geekeye
Member
i'd go with the jsp bullet, load it hot, and hang on tight. the hottest factory load i have laying around is the pmc bronze 158 grain jsp, rated for 1471 fps (not sure what barrel length they tested at though) and it is definitely a handful in my 5" 686. this is still a LOT slower than you'd get out of a rifle, so you want to prioritize penetration over expansion in the projectile.
twodog max
Member
I shot a big whitetail doe with my 686SSR 4.25 inch barrel a few years back. It was loaded with the Alliant recommended max load of Blue Dot and a Zero 158 grain HP. She was maybe 35 yards away. I hit her high in the shoulder and the bullet went through the top of both shoulder blade and the spine. She dropped on the spot of course and the bullet exited. So much for the idea of JHP not penetrating well. The Zero bullets are definitely what I would call a premium grade bullet. The are accurate enough but IMO rather soft. I buy them in bulk from Zero when available for everyday shooting. That is my only 357 revolver deer shooting I can recall. I have shot two black bears with 357 but that is another story.
I did most of my 6" .357 deer hunting when I was younger and able to "Run the hills".
Back then the Speer 160 JSP lead tip and the 158 Lwc were the two bullets that gave me good enough accuracy to hunt deer.
Never needed to try the 170 gr since these two bullets worked, for me out of the M19-5.
Your 4" barrel will work, but as mentioned lots of testing and shooting is the key to meat on the table.
Good luck finding a good load and taking your time on that first shot, even if you have to pass for another deer for the perfect shot.
Back then the Speer 160 JSP lead tip and the 158 Lwc were the two bullets that gave me good enough accuracy to hunt deer.
Never needed to try the 170 gr since these two bullets worked, for me out of the M19-5.
Your 4" barrel will work, but as mentioned lots of testing and shooting is the key to meat on the table.
Good luck finding a good load and taking your time on that first shot, even if you have to pass for another deer for the perfect shot.
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