357 Mag and Bullseye

[sjs]

I want a full magnum load for 158 grain, coated lead Missouri Bullet Co. SWC bullets and Bullseye powder.

My Lee Manual (2d Ed) lists loads for 158g lead bullets from 4.2 to 4.8 with a max velocity of 939 fps.

I also have a Lyman Load Data pamphlet for Popular Revolver Cartridges (2011) that lists 6.2 to 6.9 grains of Bullseye for 158gr Lead bullets with velocity from 1043 to 1096. My One Book/One Caliber booklet for the 357 (2016) lists 4.9 to 6.9 grains of Bullseye for 158gr lead Lyman bullets.

This seems strange to me. There is 2.1 gr more powder in the Lyman maximum load than in the Lee maximum load. I would like to try the higher load range in the Lyman books but this difference has me concerned. The online data for Alliant powders also has the lower range that Lee has.

Anyone have experience using the load data of Lyman for 158g lead bullets and Bullseye than can give me some advice?

 

[Dfish1247]

My Lyman 50th shows 6.9gr max with 160gr lrn. 1119fps, 41k cup. That seems real stiff for bullseye to me. But I don’t know the cup to psi conversion.

I know this gets old hearing, but for full power, 2400 or imr 4227 would be better for velocity and possibly accuracy given the situation. Pressure with bullseye goes up like a rocket with not much more powder. Just be careful and work up.

My bullseye load in mag brass started at a max 38sp load and went from there. Didn’t go much before I found the load that was most accurate, but that’s what I was after.

 

[alwslate]

The lower maximum load data is for swaged bullets to prevent leading and is not at maximum pressure for the .357. Some maximum load data for cast bullets is from Lyman and the highest I have seen with 158 gr is 7.0 grs. All Lyman data has pressure listed so you can see that all loads are within limits for the .357. I want to chronograph 7.0 grs with a 158 gr cast bullet when I get around to it. So far my highest load has been 6.1 grs with a Win mag primer and a 158 gr cast SWC for 1089 FPS out of my 4” S&W 27-2. If you look at the various loads listed with CUP and PSI pressures you will see that 35,000 psi and 42,000 cup seem to be about the same. The older actual Alliant data listed pressure with all loads in psi. All of their .357’loads used the Federal 200 SR primer and their top charge of Bulleye was around 33,000 psi. Bullseye has more upward flexibility than many might think. It’s very stable and predictable.

 

[AJ]

Get the Quick Load program and see what the chamber pressures are I have manuals from 50-60 years ago that give way different loadings tn now, I have a feeling the lawyers are involved.

 

[moosedog]

Bullseye powder is a quick burning powder better suited to target loads in 38 special or smaller calibers. I would use a medium burn rate powder like Unique or it's equivalent.

 

[AJ]

My loads for the 357 Magnum are 2400 as my favorite

 

[Nevada Ed]

I loaded hot Bullseye loads for my 6" 357 back in the 1990's...............

I tried the 110, 125 and 158 JHP bullets and I was not a happy camper.

If that is the only powder that you have, then go for it.

 

[sjs]

Thanks for all the good advice guys.

 

[stansdds]

You want a full magnum load for powder coated 158 grain LSWC bullets? Not going to happen with Bullseye. Bullseye will work well for making target wadcutter and pretty much duplicating any 38 Special or even 38 Special +P+ load with 357 Magnum brass, but way too fast burning for anything more.

 

[gwpercle]

You have 3 references ...two show 6.9 grs. Bullseye as max as does my RCBS Cast Bullet Manual ... It appears safe but will be on the warm side ...we talking MAXIMUM load here ... do not go over .
Bullseye is a hot burning powder and a Gas Check would be in order here ...But , the bullets are "coated" so this might keep leading at bay .

My advice ...start low and work up, looking for sticky extraction and lead in the barrel ... when you get either of these signs ...stop and drop back a 1/10th grain or two .

I would start at 6.0 grs. Bullseye and work up and if I got to 6.5 or 6.7 grs. Bullseye ... I would stop ... I have found that best accuracy with cast bullets is usually right below the Max. charge ... and I like to leave myself some wiggle room when it comes to max. charges of fast burning powder .
Gary

 

[mikld]

I have used Bullseye for 357 Mag. 158 gr LSWC and for 44 Mag. 240 LSWC. I cannot remember which manuals I used, but all were "book loads" (tried Bullseye in these calibers 35+ years ago). I shot a bunch of safe handloads, but there were certainly better powders, much slower than Bullseye...

(FWIW; I don't quote my powder charges, or pay any attention to powder charges, load data I see on any forum. My reloading forum viewing started in 2006 and I soon started seeing very questionable suggestions. Published manuals with a few powder manufacturer's web site data has worked quite well and safely for nearly 40 years...).

 

[mikerjf]

I recently shot some 158g Lswc loads, comparing 6.5g Bullseye against 6.8g Unique. The two loads felt quite similar to me.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Data is data..................
if it worked back in 1950, it will work in todays loads.

Just make sure that you follow the date correctly and don't change things.

I have noticed that the 2015 plus data is a little on the safer side but
I had rather be safe, than sorry, any day, with rolling my own.

All the loads will work...............
just that some are a little better than the others in different, uses.

 

[Univibe]

When I first started loading, in 1979, I noticed that Sierra's manual listed hot loads for magnum revolvers using Bullseye and other fast powders. Speer and Hornady did not. I always wondered about that.

I'd use the fast powders for 38+P+ territory. If true magnum performance is needed, go to Blue Dot, AA#9, 2400, or H110.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thanks for all the good advice guys.

Please listen to all the good advice. Bullseye is one of the fastest powders available for reloading and for sure not a good choice for full power .357 Magnum loads. You hit the pressure limits well before max performance and fast powders used in that application could be unpredictable. Slower powders will give you much better and safer results.

I use 2400 or AA#9 for all but the hottest rounds and W296/H110 for the highest performing loads. W296/H110 does not like to be downloaded.That powder works great with heavy bullets and hunting .357 Magnum ammo meant for a levergun.

 

[alwslate]

There’s nothing wrong with using Bullseye at the maximum recommended charge weights in the .357. It’s not dynamite, it’s just another powder. But you just have realize that you’re getting a lower level of performance than “full .357 magnum” loads.

 

[ReloadforFun]

One or two considerations.

Older datya, before transducers reading directly in psi was often listed as "psi" when the test method was CUP. This was because it was the only test method and trhat's what was targeted - psi. Once transducers became more common, and the differences between the measurement systems was seen, it became normal to list transducer data as psi, and crusher data as CUP. Thus, if dealing with oulder data, even if listed as psi, it's likely to actually be CUP.

A given amount of powder can only produce a given quantity of gas. Therefore, 6 grains versus 12 grains will see a decided difference in the volume of gas. Larger cases benefit from slower powders with respect to top performance at a given pressure.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

There’s nothing wrong with using Bullseye at the maximum recommended charge weights in the .357. It’s not dynamite, it’s just another powder. But you just have realize that you’re getting a lower level of performance than “full .357 magnum” loads.

The OP did ask about a "full magnum load", that's why I posted what I did. I never said Bullseye was dynamite.

 

[AzShooter]

Bullseye is a great powder for low pressure rounds but the first thing you will notice when you go for magnum loads is that your cases will probably be hard to eject.

I've used very old manuals in the past to find hot loads using 158 LRN and have found Red Dot to be pretty good, Unique is better and for real fast loads 2400 or Blue dot.

Yes it's possible but why take a chance?

 

[alwslate]

Bullseye loads are listed in a variety of manuals with pressure listed as CUP or PSI with original Hercules and Alliant data which is much more recent. ALL loads with Bullseye, regardless of how the pressure was listed have always been within industry standards for the .357 magnum and all other ctgs. So assuming you’re a Handloader who’s capable of only charging a case with the amount of powder you want what are you taking a chance on? And in that respect what’s the difference between Bullseye and any other powder?