.357 Mag LEO use

[Faulkner]

I started in law enforcement in 1995 and carried a 4 inch S&W 586, we had the choice of using .38 +P's or 158 grain .357 magnum JHP's. 90% of our deputies carried the magnum rounds.

Department transitioned to Beretta 92's in 1996, but we had the option of staying with our revolvers, which I did. In 1999 we traded in the Beretta's for H&K USP in .45 ACP, a gun I absolutely hated as a duty weapon and it was not popular with most of the deputies. After two months with my new USP I turned it in and pulled my 586 that I had bought from the department.

In 2000 I was allowed to participate in a trial with some sample Glocks in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. After some early reservations over the whole plastic, black, ugly thing, I fell in love with the .40's, the G22 and G23. I've been happily carrying a Glock 23 for ten years for uniformed carry and am convinced it ranks high as one of the best combat handguns available today. I do occasionally carry a 3 inch S&W 65 when in plain clothes, always with 158 grain magnum Hydra-shoks.

 

[TxShooter]

We still have one deputy that carries a 4" 66 with smooth wood Hogues, two speedloaders in a Safariland Split-Six, and 12 rounds in loops. I'll ask him the next time I see him about the ammo. They're .357 SJHPs, but I don't know if they're 125 or 158 grain. We have to supply our own rigs, pistols, and ammo, so we have a pretty good degree of latitude in what we can buy.

 

[mtgianni]

As a Reserve Officer we were allowed to carry if qualified 9mm, 357/38 or 45. [1982-1987] I carried a 28 then a 19. Most had a Kframe, 1 guy had a Browning 9mm and a few 1911's were found. Ammo was 125 gr jacketed 357 or 38. If you didn't have a 357 you bought your own duty ammo. 9mm was 115 gr, 45 was 230 AIRC.

 

[akviper]

I started law enforcement in 1975. We started out qualifying with 148 grain 38 wadcutters and carrying Remington 125 grain 357s for duty. When I became a firearms instructor I required quarterly quals with the duty round. A few officers could not handle the 357 in our Model 66s so we had them use the 158 grain ljhp "FBI" load. We alternated between Remington and Federal ammo as it was low bid. I later converted the department to the 686 which helped a bit with the recoil of the 125 grain 357 round. Around 1984 our chief authorized individual officer purchase of autos for duty use and all but a few officers gave up their revolvers for autos.

 

[Big Cholla]

I started in LEO work as a pilot of a patrol fixed wing airplane. Because the standard duty belt interfered with some of my controls I was authorized to use a shoulder holster. I carried a Model 66-2 under my left arm. No one thought to dictate to me what I used as ammo, so I carried Super Vel .357 Mag. I did four years of flying and no one ever questioned me. Of course I was never in a shooting during that time although I was shot at by a meth lab guy during a desert raid. He didn't hit the airplane and I didn't know that I had been shot at. I couldn't even testify at his trial. .......... Big Cholla

 

[BKDinTexas]

The department I worked at part-time in the early to mid nineties carried 4" 686's with 145 gr. Winchester Silvertip Magnum ammo. We qualified and practiced with 158 gr. .38 Special +P. The only two shootings with that round were both leg shots (long story - but both were intentional leg shots). Marksmanship/ overpenetration with the magnum rounds was not a problem.

 

[jag312]

Back in the 80s, I knew some Special Agents in BATF. They carried S&W 66 revolvers with 2 1/2 inch barrels. They were not allowed to use .357 Magnum cartridges, and were given .38 Special ammunition that was headstamped 38 SPL +P+. It was supposed to be too hot to use in .38 Special revolvers. If I remember correctly, it had 110 grain jacketed hollow points. One of the Agents used the ammunition in an Airweight J-frame, and it caused the top strap to stretch.

 

[Iggy]

Keith44,

That is a carbon copy of what I carried/wore including the sap.

 

[.357magger]

I believe the idea that .357 magnum revolvers were issued but .38 Special ammo only allowed is an 'urban legend'. It was not true in my case, and in another thread over on the ammo section a couple months ago I asked if any LEO from that era could say they had to load down to .38 Special. None said they had to, but several said they had magnum revolvers with magnum carry rounds. There may have been a small sampling of agencies requiring .38 carry in .357 mag revolvers, but it was certainly not the rule of the day as some on the internet would have you believe. I'm curious as to how this misinformation got started.

Urban legend? Not in New Orleans and it's suburbs it wasn't.

Agency I worked for through the 70's and 80's specified Smith or Colt, 4" or 6" for patrol work (K or N frame) with 2.5" either brand for plainclothes/Detective use. J frames were pretty standard as BUG's, either in ankle rigs or back or jacket pockets. I also "snuck" in a NAA mini in .22 mag in a custom sewn (by my wife) "pocket hoster" of the uniform shirt. This was the standard for most of the surrounding parishes (counties to you English based folk ). NOPD also allowed Ruger firearms as a choice as well. My duty weapons were Smith 66's, had three, one in 2.5", one in 4", and one in 6". Carried a Model 60 on the ankle too. As well as the "sneaker" listed above.

Loadings were .38 ONLY but you could carry .38 jhp in +p and/or +p+ loadings. Most common was a 125 grain JHP. In those days, you got caught with .357 on your case stamp, you were screwed. And they inspected for that as well.

What we really did was use either +p or +p+ stamped brass, a 125 grain JHP, and loaded them up to magnum levels.

Anytime there was "shots fired" calls you could tell who was carrying "regulation" ammo and who was truly packing blasters by the sound. Back then, the thought of having someone dissect a police shooting to determine powder content, reload vs factory, etc was well...nonexistant.

Thank goodness for lawyers huh? NOOOOOOT! :0

Not raggin on ya, but for lots of jurisdictions it was not myth. Admin types didn't want the PR issue of "magnum" involved in shootings. Plain and simple.

Just an FYI from an "old nod" here.

 

[kenpofan]

I know that the semi-auto is king now and has been for a while, but back when the wheel gun was mostly what was carried by LEO (mod 27, 28, 19, 66 etc..) were they commonly loaded with magnums? I'm just curious. I know the FBI used +p .38's and from what I have read most police agencys only allow +p .38's for off duty J-framers these days. I can see why in todays lawsuit happy world magnums are frowned upon but I would hate to think that all of the .357's that were on patrol back in the day were loaded with .38's. If I were on patrol back when car doors were actually metal I would want to carry magnums. Thanks, I am just wondering about this.

I carried a model 65 with Winchester or Remington 125 jhp .357's in the 80's and early 90's with NC DOC PERT Team ( Prison Emergency Response Team's ): we had to qualify with the ammo and use HK speed loaders to carry same.
Regular issue was .125 gr .38 +p

 

[Palmetto Sharpshooter]

I started in 1980. My first PD only allowed nickel or stainless .357 Magnums. We carried Speer, Remington or Winchester .357s.

I transferred to second PD which only allowed folks after a certain hire date to carry a city-issued Model 10 using .38 Spl.+p hollow-points. Later they allowed any .357/.38 Colt or S&W 4" but could only load .38 Spl.+p hollow-points. Officers hired before that date could carry almost anything, .41 Magnums, .44 Spl., .44 Magnum, .45 Colt in revolvers, and 9mm and .45 ACP in double-action pistols. Later we adopted Beretta 92fs as our "standard issue." Most people of my seniority carried the Beretta. I still carried revolvers into the mid-nineties. It was always strange to me that the .41 and .44 Magnums were authorized but never the .357 Magnum. Our firearms policy was based on a Kentucky study but I can't recall exactly where it came from.

 

[edw794]

my department didn't mess around with .38's in a .357 gun. our issued gun was the 4" model 66 loaded with remington 125 gr. sjhp ammo. we even used that round to qualify with. big blast!!

ed