.357 Mag

[rewster]

OK guys !! With your help I'm well on my way to some good loads for my 9mm, 38 S&W and .38 Special.

My next project is .357 ( and then 40 S&W but that's the next post).

I use Win 231 and the bullet of choice is Berry's 158gr Flat point. Weapon of choice is a 686, 4". I have several manuals for guidence. However, I would be interested in any pet loads you may have for the combo listed. Rest assured, I will be guided by good sense in using any information provided.

 

[rewster]

OK guys !! With your help I'm well on my way to some good loads for my 9mm, 38 S&W and .38 Special.

My next project is .357 ( and then 40 S&W but that's the next post).

I use Win 231 and the bullet of choice is Berry's 158gr Flat point. Weapon of choice is a 686, 4". I have several manuals for guidence. However, I would be interested in any pet loads you may have for the combo listed. Rest assured, I will be guided by good sense in using any information provided.

 

[john traveler]

If you intend to load beyond standard .38 Special velocities, you will be much better served by changing to WW 296, Alliant 2400, Unique, Herco, or other slower powder.

WW 231 is among the fastest of pistol powders, right next to Bullseye, and will build up peak pressures long before magnum velocities are achieved.

 

[OKFC05]

Might want to read the Berry caution about magnum loads with their bullets first:

FAQ: How fast can I shoot these bullets?
Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities.

http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq.aspx?q=10&c=1

While a jacketed bullet in .357 over W296 really rocks out, the Berry plated bullet is not designed for magnum velocities.

I use Berry for minor power .40 S&W, but again have not gotten good results at max loads in .40S&W: my groups started turning into patterns....

 

[Snapping Twig]

Grab up some quality cast bullets to augment your armamentarium.

Here's some favorite loads I like to shoot through a 4" 586 - all in magnum cases BTW.

1.) 5g W231 under a 160g cast SWC - Lyman 358156. Very pleasant and perhaps a +P special equivalent.

2.) 15.5g W296 under the same bullet. You could hunt with this.

3.) 15.5g W296 under a 170g cast SWC - Lyman 358429.
This is a solid performer.

Check the second and third loads against your data and work up to them.

 

[VonFatman]

I have found that 6gr. of Unique behind a 158gr. LSWC is the cat's meow. I don't expect I'm getting much over 1k fps.

You could use the same charge behind your Berry's bullets and find joy and happiness.

Good luck.

Bob

 

[acl864]

I have no idea how plated bullets compare with jacketed bullets when comparing load data, but in a recent experiment I used 6.4 gr of W231 under a Winchester 158 gr. JHP using a CCI Magnum SP primer. In my M19 with 2 1/2" barrel the average velocity was 910 fps. It was an accurate and low recoil round. Again, I'm not sure how plated bullets compare to jacketed bullets as far as generating pressure and velocity so this data may be useless to you.

There are definitely better powders for magnum velocity loads so it depends on what you're trying to do with the load.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Might want to read the Berry caution about magnum loads with their bullets first:

That my friend is good information.

This is slightly off topic but, my 40S&W 180gr Berry's PHP tests with slower burning powders, SR4756 and Longshot have proven to give good accuracy @ the 1000fps threshold.

Back on topic.
No offense but, in a revolver, my loads are cast only!

Lots of data for 45ACP with either Berry's or Ranier's plated bullets. Most with good results.

If it were me and I was after a nice shooting 357mag load, something like VonFatman mentioned I would look to SR4756 or a powder in that burn rate to start with.

I use 9.5gr of SR4756 behind my H&G #290BB bullet and get 1250fps from a 6" M586 -4. FWIW that load is over their suggested load now. It comes out of the Speer #8 though and performs well in my wife's Marlin 1894 carbine. I get right at 1600fps with the same round out of the 20" barrel.

"The data posted here is outside current data for SR4756. Use at your own risk. The posting of this data is not a suggestion for you to use it. I am simply posting my results with it. As with any data, from any source, work you way up to it in small increments."

(I hope that does it!

)

 

[Bruce51]

Originally posted by VonFatman:
I have found that 6gr. of Unique behind a 158gr. LSWC is the cat's meow. I don't expect I'm getting much over 1k fps.

You could use the same charge behind your Berry's bullets and find joy and happiness.

Good luck.

Bob

Bob I chronographed that load from two different guns with 4" barrels. The lowest velocity was 842fps and the highest was 970fps. These seem to be 38spl velocity loads and not very consistant at that load density. Bruce

 

[Hoptob]

I use low powder charges with plated bullets. At higher velocities they tumble and you loose accuracy. I prefer 125 gr. over 158 gr. bullets for training because they are cheaper. My favorite training load is 4.4 gr. Titegroup under 125 gr. plated bullet in 357 mag cases; it clocks a bit over 800 fps from 4" barrel. Short of using lead it's one of the most economical reloads you can have; it's clean and very accurate. If you prefer 158 gr. I'd go with 4-4.5 gr. charge of TG.

These are 38 spl loads in 357 mag brass; not +P. Choice of brass is a matter of convenience. I like to use same brass for most of my revolver loads to simplify reloading logistics.

For medium and high velocity loads I use jacketed bullets.

Mike

 

[rewster]

Thanks for a lot of useful information and cautions !

I should have added that I am looking for a target/plinking load and not interested in magnum velocities. I do have Hornady 158gr LSWC and Magtech 158g LRN with hollow base. I see from my manuals that W231 is not that popular a choice. I may just load down to 38spl levels.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I may just load down to 38spl levels.

Roger,
Not that that can't be done but with W231/HP-38 you may lack consistency in the larger case.

If it were me, and I have done this many times, I use 38spl loads in 357mag cases only I use Bullseye powder. Because it is such a fast burning powder I see little difference in velocity and none in performance. ES and SD are very consistent even in the larger cases.

I must admit I haven't done this test with W231/HP-38. I would almost bet (not a betting man though) that it won't be so with this powder.

If you have the opportunity, maybe you could do the testing and let us know how it turns out.

What I would do is test them with the same weight in both cases then up the powder weight by .5 for the bigger case, no more than that though.

Now just by way of information, I wouldn't be telling someone to do this if they were going to be using these loads in a "J" frame or and "K" frame 357mag. Since he has already stated he is going to be shooting them out of an "L" frame, and they are nearly indestructible with standard 357mag loads, I feel confident this advice is solid.

The normal disclaimer applies though, use at your own risk!

 

[Snapping Twig]

Not having testing equipment, I can't verify this, however I understand that 4.5g W231 in a special case under a 160g SWC produces similar ballistics to 5.0g in a magnum case with the same bullet.

Shot to shot I feel no difference when using this 5g load in a magnum case and accuracy is outstanding.

 

[rewster]

Originally posted by Snapping Twig:
Not having testing equipment, I can't verify this, however I understand that 4.5g W231 in a special case under a 160g SWC produces similar ballistics to 5.0g in a magnum case with the same bullet.

Shot to shot I feel no difference when using this 5g load in a magnum case and accuracy is outstanding.

This seems to be exactly what Skip suggested I do. Guess what ? I think I'll try it !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[VonFatman]

Hey Bruce,
Good stuff buddy! Thanks for the info. I have not run these thru the Chrony yet, but would not doubt your numbers at all...

I will say this much...this load (6gr Unique under a 158gr. LSWC) is very accurate! I shot a bunch (100) thru my 4" Model 10 and could not a have asked for a more accurate load...and, this load is very easy to shoot recoil wise.

Bob

 

[Bruce51]

Bob, I was quite surprised by that data way back when. It is the reason I shoot those loads in .38 special cases. I save on powder and get the same velocities.I read an article in Shooting Times, April 2007 by Ken Oehler. Powder Position Affects Ballistics. Apparently Unique is very position sensitive which would explain my chrono readings. So it is .38 special cases and Bullseye for me. Bruce

I would add that the 970fps was in a model 19. The 19 usually is 100fps slower than my 686 with .357 loads. There has to be something going on with the powder to get those results.

 

[Waldo]

I have used 6.0 grains of Unique with 158 grain cast lead SWC bullets for at least 20 years. I get the bullets from various suppliers. I have had no problems with it. I have shot it in at least 10 different Colt and S&W revolvers and a Marlin rifle. It seems to shoot fine for me. I have compared it to various factory rounds and have gotten similar accuracy. How ever I have never shot from a machine rest or been around a chronograph. But it seems to work well for informal target practice and plinking. I always use magnum cases for magnum guns. But I am not interested in real hot loads. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[VonFatman]

I took some of my recently loaded rounds to the range yesterday to see what the Chrony had to say:

158gr LSWC-BB
6gr Unique
CCI Std. Primer
Mixed Brass
Medium Crimp

4" S&W 28-2
Average fps: 950

6" S&W 686
Avarage fps: 980

10" Contender
Average fps: 1,220

This load was very accurate at 50 yards in all three guns.

Interestingly, I also ran some same style, same load non-BB bullets past the Chrony and found with my 6" 686 did NOT like them! All over the paper.

It was a nice day at the range!

Bob

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My favorite powder for use in a .357 Magnum using a lead bullet is HS-6. HS-6 is very accurate powder, especially when using a lead bullet. It also develops less pressure than many powders in the same burn rate range while delivering equal or superior velocities. It's low flash quality is a plus too.

Powders like W296/H110, 2400, AA#9 and similar Magnum powders will push normal lead bullets too fast IMO. HS-6 and other similar powders like Herco, AA#7, True Blue, Longshot, Power Pistol and a few others are better choices for lead bullets in Magnum rounds. Actually, 2400 is the only powder in the slowest burn rate group I would consider using with lead bullets.

 

[bigt5150]

You might want to try a slower powder as well a good bullet. My personal favorite is a Hornady 140gr. XTP on top of 19grs. of Hodgdon 110, Winchester Small Pistol Magnum primer and starline case.