I load 15 grains of 2400 w/ 158 grain hard cast and jacketed bullets, CCI 550 (std small pistol primer works also), Starline brass, for my M27-2 revolver. This load is superbly accurate, I've loaded and shot it for many years. In fact this is about the only load my M27 has seen since I bought it new in 1981, and it's seen alot of them.
.357 Magnum Factory Duplication Load
- Thread starter jimmyj
- Start date
Hammerdown77
Member
I like how Elmer called 7.5 grains of Unique under a 250 gr bullet in the .44 Special (Skeeter Skelton's load) a "light gallery load".
Paul5388
US Veteran
The foreword to "Sixgun Cartridges and Loads" is an interesting read from 1936. SIXGUN CARTRIDGES AND LOADS
Here's the 1969 G&A article I alluded to earlier (it's 6.9 megabytes, so don't try a dialup connection).
http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/GA/1969_01_Elmer_Keith_Favorite_Load.pdf
Here's the 1969 G&A article I alluded to earlier (it's 6.9 megabytes, so don't try a dialup connection).
http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/GA/1969_01_Elmer_Keith_Favorite_Load.pdf
Paul5388
US Veteran
Here's a November 1935 American Rifleman article by Elmer on the new S&W .357 Magnum. The loads he used should tell you something about modern loads.
http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/AmericanRifleman/Keith357.pdf
http://www.elmerkeithshoot.org/AmericanRifleman/Keith357.pdf
Recently I ran a brief test to compare different primers with 2400 powder and cast bullets in my S&W md 28 with 4" barrel. The load was
14.8 grs of old Hercules 2400, Win. brass and a hard cast 158 gr SWC
of the bevel base type with hard blue lube often seen at gun shows and
sold by various vendors. Five rounds of each with five different primers
ran; Win SP avg. 1222 fps, CCI 500 SP avg. 1237 fps, Rem. 1 1/2 SP
avg. 1244 fps, Rem. 7 1/2 SR avg. 1245 fps, CCI 400 SR avg. 1247 fps.
Win. 296 powder in Win. brass and Win. SPM primers and jacketed
bullets were tried; 16.6 grs and 158 gr Hornady XTP avg. 1114 fps,
17.2 grs and 150 gr Sierra HP avg. 1131 fps, 18.8 grs and 140 gr Speer
HP avg. 1173 fps and 21 grs and 125 gr Sierra HP avg. 1335 fps. I was
a bit disappointed with the velocities of the jacketed bullets and see
little reason to use them in the 158 gr weight.
14.8 grs of old Hercules 2400, Win. brass and a hard cast 158 gr SWC
of the bevel base type with hard blue lube often seen at gun shows and
sold by various vendors. Five rounds of each with five different primers
ran; Win SP avg. 1222 fps, CCI 500 SP avg. 1237 fps, Rem. 1 1/2 SP
avg. 1244 fps, Rem. 7 1/2 SR avg. 1245 fps, CCI 400 SR avg. 1247 fps.
Win. 296 powder in Win. brass and Win. SPM primers and jacketed
bullets were tried; 16.6 grs and 158 gr Hornady XTP avg. 1114 fps,
17.2 grs and 150 gr Sierra HP avg. 1131 fps, 18.8 grs and 140 gr Speer
HP avg. 1173 fps and 21 grs and 125 gr Sierra HP avg. 1335 fps. I was
a bit disappointed with the velocities of the jacketed bullets and see
little reason to use them in the 158 gr weight.
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As an old coot, I'd like to point out that the velocities quoted in old publications could be charitably characterized as "optimistic". Velocities could be obtained by chronographs or ballistic pendulums and were few and far between. Also, the test barrels that allegedly produced the results were frequently longer than standard handgun barrels and there was no vent to simulate the barrel/cylinder gap.
Between that and improvements in current chronographs, comparison of old and new data isn't exactly apples to apples.
Between that and improvements in current chronographs, comparison of old and new data isn't exactly apples to apples.
IAhunter
Member
I load 14 grains of 2400 with Hornady 158 XTP, Rem cases, and Rem 5 1/2 primers. Fairly hot, but not ridiculous. When I do my part, that load will hold 1" at 25 yards out of a 686 no dash. Velocity is right at 1200 fps.
Peter M. Eick
Member
I shoot 14.5 grns of 2400 with lead 158's all the time.
The current Seirra manual list 15 grns of 2400 with a 158 JHP. I don't think that 15.4 grns is really that far off. That is in the range of gun to gun variations.
The current Seirra manual list 15 grns of 2400 with a 158 JHP. I don't think that 15.4 grns is really that far off. That is in the range of gun to gun variations.
Groo01
Member
Groo here
As I remember,,, the 357 "HOT" loads were built with LEAD
SWC's and shot in at least 6 in barrels.
Similar loads with jackets will not be as fast...
Lets match apples to apples here..
Also the keith bullet was designed to use as much of the
cylinder as possible [ And they were shorter than today]
with 38 spec and 44 spec cases..
Even with magnum cases the over all length was about the same.
[ Those short cylinder you know]
The original loads were hot { I shot them in M-28's and Pythons]
but the now ones are somewhat slower due to the jackets and
the use of smaller guns..
As I remember,,, the 357 "HOT" loads were built with LEAD
SWC's and shot in at least 6 in barrels.
Similar loads with jackets will not be as fast...
Lets match apples to apples here..
Also the keith bullet was designed to use as much of the
cylinder as possible [ And they were shorter than today]
with 38 spec and 44 spec cases..
Even with magnum cases the over all length was about the same.
[ Those short cylinder you know]
The original loads were hot { I shot them in M-28's and Pythons]
but the now ones are somewhat slower due to the jackets and
the use of smaller guns..
Huckelberry75
Member
Great info.
m657
Member
Shooting the hot 357s now & then reminds me why I prefer 41 mag.
No caliber wars intended, I just don't care for the sharp little bark my 357s produce at the upper load range.
No caliber wars intended, I just don't care for the sharp little bark my 357s produce at the upper load range.
Paul5388
US Veteran
.357s are the reason I wear ear protection!
Back in the late 1960s we didn't have or know to wear ear protection. It wasn't even issue items in the military, so it never crossed our minds that it was needed. The .357s I shot would make my ears ring for days before it subsided and that was using factory loads.
I changed to some very hot 125 gr handloads and the blast was even worse. I still shoot those 125 gr loads, but I do wear hearing protection now!
Back in the late 1960s we didn't have or know to wear ear protection. It wasn't even issue items in the military, so it never crossed our minds that it was needed. The .357s I shot would make my ears ring for days before it subsided and that was using factory loads.
I changed to some very hot 125 gr handloads and the blast was even worse. I still shoot those 125 gr loads, but I do wear hearing protection now!
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
I still shoot those 125 gr loads, but I do wear hearing protection now!
HUH?
Seriously, there is a much different "pitch" with the hot 38 calibers. They are so sharp that they almost hurt your ears. A 44Mag doing 1400fps from a 5" barreled revolver is not even close to the same "pain".
Paul5388
US Veteran
At 1600+ fps they are pretty loud, they'll blow the wax out of your ears and maybe your ear drums! 
I suppose you realize we're talking maximum SR4756 loads in Speer #8?
I suppose you realize we're talking maximum SR4756 loads in Speer #8?
15.0gr A2400 under the 158gr Horn XTPs chromos 1,400 fps from my 5 ½" FA M97 (std primers, 65 deg F, 5 paces from the muzzle).
Talking about eye/ear protection, most of the hearing loss that I sustained was in the early 60s. My first .357 was a Ruger flat top that I got when I was about 14. In those days, we didn't know about eye or hearing protection. Shooting factory ammo without hearing protection was so painful, we used to break off the filters from the parents cigarettes and stuff them in our ears. I remember experiencing some eye irritation after one session. Looked in the mirror and there was a black spot in the white of my eye. I was terrified that if I told the parents they would take the Ruger away. Using a toothpick, I very carefully removed the powder particle.
Paul
Talking about eye/ear protection, most of the hearing loss that I sustained was in the early 60s. My first .357 was a Ruger flat top that I got when I was about 14. In those days, we didn't know about eye or hearing protection. Shooting factory ammo without hearing protection was so painful, we used to break off the filters from the parents cigarettes and stuff them in our ears. I remember experiencing some eye irritation after one session. Looked in the mirror and there was a black spot in the white of my eye. I was terrified that if I told the parents they would take the Ruger away. Using a toothpick, I very carefully removed the powder particle.
Paul
