DOEBOY1
Member
if you were to use it on big bear always remember to "FILE THE FRONT SITE"
.357 Magnum is obsolete
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if you were to use it on big bear always remember to "FILE THE FRONT SITE"
rpg0123
Member
I think whoever said 357 mag is obsolete is a nutcase. I can't think of another single round that is so useful in so many instances. 44 mag may be better in the woods, and 40 S&W may be just as good in defense, but the 357 mag can handle both with the right load and the right barrel length. That's what you call versatility.
RPM2DAY
Member
The internal combustion engine is even older, but still gets the job done. I'll keep my .357 and my V8, thank you.
Im older than the .357 mag by several years, and Have carried and used it in about every conceivable way. I still have a few, with the mod 19 S&W my goto and carry.
Long live the wheel gun and the .357 mag, It will last longer than I will!
Long live the wheel gun and the .357 mag, It will last longer than I will!
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smousefam5
Member
I was going to reply but decided my time was better spent elsewhere.
flop-shank
US Veteran
Slight thread drift, but Slider, are you a WWII vet?
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Well, anyone is free to argue anything that person wishes to argue, but about 40 years ago, after much debate and hand-wringing, it was decided by a few knowledgeable gun writers that if you could only have one handgun the 4 inch, medium frame, .357 Magnum would be the one to have.
Small enough to carry concealed, big enough to get good hits at long distance, full power ammo for certain jobs, less power for other jobs, wadcutters for practice, etc.
Even back then, the 1911 may well have made more sense as a strictly defense weapon, but the question posed was a "one gun for everything" question, and not just "what was best for defense."
The 1911 excelled at defense, and if tuned properly, at sports. On the other hand, it was not ideal for game animals. I don't see anything vastly different today that would make a duty size 9mm, .40 or .45 any better as a "one gun for everything" option.
Thus, while the M&P may very well be better for defense, it is still not the ideal hunting handgun.
And, while a 44 Magnum can be loaded to distinct power levels, the platform from which it is launched is just too big for concealed carry, in my opinion.
Therefore, after a great deal of consideration, if I could only have one, it would still be a .357 Magnum, 4 inch, medium frame.
Make mine a 686 Plus Mountain Gun, which carries like a Model 66, has a round butt for concealment, and has one more shot. Here we are 40 years on, and the answer is the same as it was in 1974.
Small enough to carry concealed, big enough to get good hits at long distance, full power ammo for certain jobs, less power for other jobs, wadcutters for practice, etc.
Even back then, the 1911 may well have made more sense as a strictly defense weapon, but the question posed was a "one gun for everything" question, and not just "what was best for defense."
The 1911 excelled at defense, and if tuned properly, at sports. On the other hand, it was not ideal for game animals. I don't see anything vastly different today that would make a duty size 9mm, .40 or .45 any better as a "one gun for everything" option.
Thus, while the M&P may very well be better for defense, it is still not the ideal hunting handgun.
And, while a 44 Magnum can be loaded to distinct power levels, the platform from which it is launched is just too big for concealed carry, in my opinion.
Therefore, after a great deal of consideration, if I could only have one, it would still be a .357 Magnum, 4 inch, medium frame.
Make mine a 686 Plus Mountain Gun, which carries like a Model 66, has a round butt for concealment, and has one more shot. Here we are 40 years on, and the answer is the same as it was in 1974.
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Beat me to it......... LOL...just saw how old this thread is..... he beat me by over 4 years....
Lots of rounds out there that will do a better job on a specific target than the .357........ but like a concealed carry gun......you have to have it with you when you need it....... all day every day......
So ya, the .357 might be a compromise...... but I will have my 3" 66 or 3" 60-10 on me if I ever need it.......
If I want a little more how about a 4" round butt 686 will handle any .357 load w/o a problem and not a problem to carry all day......want even more power from a .357 how about a Winchester Trapper in .357 or Ruger 77/357.
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.44
Anyone price .44 magnum ammo lately?
Yep. 25 cents a round from my re-loader.lead, powder, primer and cases which I already have.
gkitch
Member
Let's say that today, 2014, there is a person who is a sportsman who does not handload and he wants a good completely reliable hangun that he can practice with once in a while. He wants to carry it with him on hunting, fishing and camping trips for personal protection from everything from poisonous reptiles to rabid raccoons and predatory humans. He may hunt for small game or, if needed for survival, larger game. He does not want something complicated that requires lots of training and maintenance to ensure reliability. He will keep it as a home defense gun as well.
Perhaps some of us have known such people?
What would we reccomend? Whatever it is, if we are considering it seriously then it is certainly NOT obsolete.
Perhaps some of us have known such people?
What would we reccomend? Whatever it is, if we are considering it seriously then it is certainly NOT obsolete.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Obsolete works for me. So does Social Security and bifocal lenses.
IMO, the 357 is not obsolete nor in danger.
What other caliber is chambered in J, K/L and N frame versions?
What other caliber is chambered in J, K/L and N frame versions?
Lest we forget the reputation of the .357 magnum 125 grain SJHP moving at about 1450 FPS from a 4" revolver barrel.
Put questionable statistics and jello tests aside, the actual reputation and legacy of this load as a highly effective defensive handgun cartridge from those who actually used it in combat speak to it's virtues that transend time and are still relevent in the 21st century.
The .357 magnum just works very, very well. It is not peerless, but it has stood the test of time and remains one of the greatest and most versatile handgun cartridges ever made.
JMHO.
YMMV.
Put questionable statistics and jello tests aside, the actual reputation and legacy of this load as a highly effective defensive handgun cartridge from those who actually used it in combat speak to it's virtues that transend time and are still relevent in the 21st century.
The .357 magnum just works very, very well. It is not peerless, but it has stood the test of time and remains one of the greatest and most versatile handgun cartridges ever made.
JMHO.
YMMV.
stevehart3578
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They said the same thing when the .41 Magnum came out.
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While we are talking about hunting use of the .357 Magnum, let us not forget the exploits of D. B. Wesson during his famous hunting trip used to promote the new revolver. Admittedly, .357 Magnum ammo is not loaded to that level these days.
That said, if you want to shoot the original without dipping into your remaining stash of $250.00 a box of 1935 large primer Magnum ammo, I suggest you keep a few boxes of Buffalo Bore 19C on hand. It is pretty close to the 1,510 fps of the original, with modern chronograph and "real" barrels/revolvers used for the test.
I would argue that there is no game animal alive that is capable of telling the difference between Buffalo Bore's 1,485 fps (4 inch 686 Mountain Gun) and the 1,510 fps (8 3/4 inch ".357" Magnum) of the original.
And, a real plus is that the Buffalo Bore uses a 158 grain JHP bullet instead of the lead semi-wadcutter of the original. Whether this will make a difference to the recipient of this "medicine" is anyone's guess, but it certainly might make cleaning the weapon after shooting a tad easier.
Also don't forget the "overweight" hunting-specific rounds, which use bullets in the 170 and 180 grain range.
While the 44 Magnum may have eclipsed the .357 Magnum cartridge for hunting, ammo makers have certainly not neglected development of newer, more effective rounds for that purpose.
That said, if you want to shoot the original without dipping into your remaining stash of $250.00 a box of 1935 large primer Magnum ammo, I suggest you keep a few boxes of Buffalo Bore 19C on hand. It is pretty close to the 1,510 fps of the original, with modern chronograph and "real" barrels/revolvers used for the test.
I would argue that there is no game animal alive that is capable of telling the difference between Buffalo Bore's 1,485 fps (4 inch 686 Mountain Gun) and the 1,510 fps (8 3/4 inch ".357" Magnum) of the original.
And, a real plus is that the Buffalo Bore uses a 158 grain JHP bullet instead of the lead semi-wadcutter of the original. Whether this will make a difference to the recipient of this "medicine" is anyone's guess, but it certainly might make cleaning the weapon after shooting a tad easier.
Also don't forget the "overweight" hunting-specific rounds, which use bullets in the 170 and 180 grain range.
While the 44 Magnum may have eclipsed the .357 Magnum cartridge for hunting, ammo makers have certainly not neglected development of newer, more effective rounds for that purpose.
You said this wasn't a revolver vs auto thread but you made the comparison anyway. So I will strike that in support of your argument.
The 44 mag looks to me to be too much of everything for most anything one would want to use it for. The exception would be for hunting.
I've had a 357 of some type for 40 years. Probably the most versatile revolver cartridge out there. Most reloaders who shoot a revolver know that. Recently I downsized to one revolver caliber. I sold my 44's with the associated reloading components and now only have 38's.
Ruger just chambered a bolt rifle in 357 and there is a huge shortage of 357 lever rifles as we speak. So it would seem the cartridge itself is doing quite well.
If a company like Ruger would team up with Federal and build a rimless 357 so it could be used in a carbine like an M1 or M4 it would be very popular.
The 44 mag looks to me to be too much of everything for most anything one would want to use it for. The exception would be for hunting.
I've had a 357 of some type for 40 years. Probably the most versatile revolver cartridge out there. Most reloaders who shoot a revolver know that. Recently I downsized to one revolver caliber. I sold my 44's with the associated reloading components and now only have 38's.
Ruger just chambered a bolt rifle in 357 and there is a huge shortage of 357 lever rifles as we speak. So it would seem the cartridge itself is doing quite well.
If a company like Ruger would team up with Federal and build a rimless 357 so it could be used in a carbine like an M1 or M4 it would be very popular.
Larry from Bend
Member
I live out in the country and carry "something" on my hip most of the time. I might be on a tractor, horse or 4 wheeler or in the pickup. Although I like my 44 Special a lot, for a gun that'll do it all --- I can't beat my 4" 66.
It will outshoot my 40 cals (and my 9mms) and is lighter than my 44 mag or 44 Special. I can reload shot cartridges for it and kill a Coyote "way out there" with 158 grain hardcasts. If I run into someone causing trouble, I'm about as well-armed as I can be. The only times I choose a different caliber are when Griz are about or I'm after Ground Squirrels.
Many years ago, I really learned to shoot a center fire hand gun using a 2 1/2" 19 (which I still have). I wish everyone could have that opportunity.
It will outshoot my 40 cals (and my 9mms) and is lighter than my 44 mag or 44 Special. I can reload shot cartridges for it and kill a Coyote "way out there" with 158 grain hardcasts. If I run into someone causing trouble, I'm about as well-armed as I can be. The only times I choose a different caliber are when Griz are about or I'm after Ground Squirrels.
Many years ago, I really learned to shoot a center fire hand gun using a 2 1/2" 19 (which I still have). I wish everyone could have that opportunity.
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.357 Magnum is not going away soon.
I have a .44 Magnum, and on occasions carry it. Although it weighs 46 oz loaded, it is not particularly pleasant to shoot, and way overpowered for self defense against two-legged predators.
On the whole, a .357 Magnum, in a full-sized revolver, is about as powerful as most people can shoot well, with enough control, for self defense. Although there are some J-frame .357s, most people draw the line at .38 +P in them.
No handguns and few rifles have real "knock down" power. It's all a matter of shot placement, as long as sufficient penetration is achieved.
I have a .44 Magnum, and on occasions carry it. Although it weighs 46 oz loaded, it is not particularly pleasant to shoot, and way overpowered for self defense against two-legged predators.
On the whole, a .357 Magnum, in a full-sized revolver, is about as powerful as most people can shoot well, with enough control, for self defense. Although there are some J-frame .357s, most people draw the line at .38 +P in them.
No handguns and few rifles have real "knock down" power. It's all a matter of shot placement, as long as sufficient penetration is achieved.
I disagree, in my part of the country I can't find 357 magnum reliably the last 3 years. 40 S&W is readily available. Furthermore in terms of Lawman performance, the 40 S&W is the holstered equivalent of the 357 magnum.
Notice the bulk of American Law enforcement over the last century has used a cartridge with S&W stamped on it. They work effectively for human sized targets.
Reminds me of an article on HD with shotguns. For 410, 20 and 12 gauge you use this and that. For 10 gauge, whatever the hell you want. LOL
The .357 can be...
The .357 can be loaded down as well as any revolver and more than most semi autos (without modification). It's a proven manstopper. Maybe a .44 would stop a little better but stopped is stopped in my book. I'm not likely to run into anything bigger than a black bear. If I go to the Rockies I'll get something bigger. IMHO the .357 is the lightest gun that can do anything I'm likely to run into. Besides, I LOVE loading and shooting it.
The .357 can be loaded down as well as any revolver and more than most semi autos (without modification). It's a proven manstopper. Maybe a .44 would stop a little better but stopped is stopped in my book. I'm not likely to run into anything bigger than a black bear. If I go to the Rockies I'll get something bigger. IMHO the .357 is the lightest gun that can do anything I'm likely to run into. Besides, I LOVE loading and shooting it.
shil
Member
It's only obsolete to the guys who want a gee-whiz semi-auto with a 500-round magazine!
gwpercle
Member
If the 357 magnum is so "obsolete" then what should we do with the "antiquated" 38 special....whoo-boy talk about over the hill!
I would love to have a model 19 in obsolete 357 magnum. But what do I know I like walnut, blue steel , real leather holsters and them old timey revolvers.
Gary
I would love to have a model 19 in obsolete 357 magnum. But what do I know I like walnut, blue steel , real leather holsters and them old timey revolvers.
Gary
CCantu357
Member
Crazy talk. The .357 is great. That being said I recently replaced my SD/woods gun with a 10mm. So I understand how a Glock 20 in 10mm can make a better deal than my old M19. But saying that a slow .40SW round will out do a .357 is just ridiculous.
Been there done that. Two years ago on the Appalachian Trail. Large female black bear went all nasty with me. Two Buffalo Bore .357 rounds out of a 6" Model 66-1 took care of the situation quite nicely.
Whomever says the .357 is obsolete is really quite naïve.
Bob
BigBill
Absent Comrade
I loaded those 357mag 125grs JHP' s to 1597fps. When my python barked she meant business. She wasn't playing. I did load my ruger 44's to 1450fps. for ccw.
If Elmer Keith was here today he'd be all over this post.
I ccw carried the 357mag in my first ccw years. For most of my ccw life I carried the 44magnum. Now it's the s&w m58 in 41mag.
I have nothing against autos I do own a few. I prefer a magnum revolver.
I have a 350/400# black bear in my back yard. He visits often. If he leaves us alone he can have some corn or fruit from my trees I plant 75% of it for the animals. I was worried with my 145# rottie when my wife called her in maybe the misses wouldn't notice at 11pm if the bear walked in the house. My misses was about 25' from this bear already when she went to get my lab away from the bear. GOD was watching over her sort of speak. He just looked at the crazy lady screaming and walked slowly away. What an awesome sight, what a big bear.
I keep a 12ga pump with slug, 00, slug, 00, slug, nearby just incase my alive bear rug comes in for a snack..
If Elmer Keith was here today he'd be all over this post.
I ccw carried the 357mag in my first ccw years. For most of my ccw life I carried the 44magnum. Now it's the s&w m58 in 41mag.
I have nothing against autos I do own a few. I prefer a magnum revolver.
I have a 350/400# black bear in my back yard. He visits often. If he leaves us alone he can have some corn or fruit from my trees I plant 75% of it for the animals. I was worried with my 145# rottie when my wife called her in maybe the misses wouldn't notice at 11pm if the bear walked in the house. My misses was about 25' from this bear already when she went to get my lab away from the bear. GOD was watching over her sort of speak. He just looked at the crazy lady screaming and walked slowly away. What an awesome sight, what a big bear.
I keep a 12ga pump with slug, 00, slug, 00, slug, nearby just incase my alive bear rug comes in for a snack..
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BigBill
Absent Comrade
These older revolver calibers will be around forever. Even the 44 Russian is here to stay.
jimbo728
Member
My 586 is X ring shooting double action at 25 yds with my personal favorite 125gr JHP hand loads. If that is obsolete I will take it but put it up against any handgun cartridge anytime.
.357 is a great cartridge.
Jim
.357 is a great cartridge.
Jim
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