38/40 S&W Top Break 38 Winchester CTG ?

[Swamp Monkey]

This is a gun that belonged to my grandfather. My dad said he probably acquired it in the 50's but it may have belonged to my great grandfather because the initials "OJ" carved into the grip matches his first and middle name, Oscar John, so it may have been in my family a bit longer. I've done some Google searches, which lead me here, for the 38 Winchester CTG and I think I know what I have but I wanted to ask the experts and what better place than the Smith-Wesson forum. Serial number 118 is on the back of the cylinder, bottom of the barrel latch. Barrel length is 6-1/2". It's a double action. So tell me what I have? What is the value? And what should I do to preserve it?

 

[PR24]

Is it .38 S&W? Seems everyone had "their own" version of .38 S&W at that time, same cartridge with the company name. Dumb, but just the way it was. Can't do much for value, but if you intend of shooting it, make sure you have the caliber verified. You never know how many woodshed gunsmiths did some sort of Frankengunning.

 

[Swamp Monkey]

PR24
From the searches I've done I'm pretty sure it is a .38/40. Here's why
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-antiques/260759-help-identifying-38-40-winchester-top-break.html

 

[Peak53]

Swamp Monkey
Very interesting. Looks like it is TWICE as old as 1950s and quite unusual. It doesn't appear that your revolver is a target model. How about providing the serial number from the butt of the frame and maybe some additional good pics? That will help some of the experts positively identify the model and date.

 

[lebomm]

The barrel marking would indicate chambering for the .38 WCF, also known as the .38-40 Winchester. That makes this a pretty rare gun, and likely somewhat valuable. Do your research carefully, and double-check everything. Please keep us posted.

Larry

 

[Swamp Monkey]

The serial number on the butt of the frame is 118 as well.

 

[Swamp Monkey]

Unfortunately it does NOT have the target sites. I'll try to get some better pictures with a real camera and not a cell phone posted up soon.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

It's a six shooter, not a five shooter, right?

If so, you have a relatively rare revolver.

Known as the 38 Winchester Double Action, it was built on the same frame as the more common 44 Double Action.

It is very easy to confuse these guns with the smaller 38 Double Action, chambered for 38 S&W, if one does not have any thing in the photo to compare to for scale. Here is a photo of a 44 Double Action and a 38 Double Action. The 44 is the larger gun. If yours is a six shooter, and not a five shooter, you have a 38 Winchester Double Action.

The fact that your revolver says 38 Winchester CTG means it is the larger gun. CTG simply means Cartridge. 38 Winchester was the way Smith and Wesson referred to the 38-40 cartridge, also known as 38 Winchester Center Fire.

This is a rare gun, there were only 276 of them made, between 1900 and 1910. It is the rarest of all the variations of the 44 Double Action.

Yours is not in pristine condition, it shows evidence of being refinished, which diminishes its value. But it is still a rare gun. No, I am not going to guess what it is worth. In 2006, one in "fine, 40% condition sold at auction for $2875.

P.S. The serial number should appear in four places on this gun. Underside of the butt, rear of the cylinder, underside of the latch, and next to one of the ears of the barrel extension. These last two places can be difficult to see.

Here is the SN on the underside of the latch on a New Model Number Three.

And here is the SN on one of the ears of the barrel extension.

You should see the same SN in all four places, insuring the gun left the factory with those parts.

 

[Swamp Monkey]

It's a six shooter. What is the current protocol of contacting Smith & Wesson to get a factor letter? It'd be really something if my Great Grandfather bought it new.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Follow this link to the Factory Letter request form at the official Smith and Wesson site. Print out the form and fill it out. Send it to the address shown. Include some photos of the gun and a check for $50. Be prepared to wait a while, Roy is always very busy.


Firearm History Request - Smith & Wesson

As I said, this revolver was only manufactured from 1900 until 1910. How old was your Great Grand Father? A factory letter will include information about the configuration of the gun when it left the factory, when it shipped, and where it shipped. Be aware that most guns were shipped to distributors, shipping direct to individuals was not unheard of, but it was not common.

 

[Swamp Monkey]

Thanks for all of the information Driftwood Johnson. I checked all 4 serial numbers and they match, serial# 118. Not sure when my Great Grandfather was born but I know my Grandfather was born in 1920 so I'm guessing my Great Grandfather was born in the 1880's-1890's. I'll have to do some digging to see exactly when he was born.
I'm going to get the Factory Letter and then I'd like to explore my option further. I may sell it or I may hold on to it. I know you said you wouldn't guess the current value but where can I get some idea for my homeowners insurance value. Again thanks for all your help.

 

[mmaher94087]

Nice .38 WCF and rather scarce with 276 made.

 

[Swamp Monkey]

Here's some better pictures

 

[deadin]

This one of the chamberings that eluded me when I was collecting S&W Revolvers in different chamberings. As said earlier, only 276 made in the DA and even fewer in SA (74). Unfortunately it has been poorly buffed and refinished so it takes it out of the high value collector field and will be worth whatever someone is willing to pay to fill a hole in their collection. I would have been interested at the time, but at nowhere near what is being quoted as to its current value.

 

[ol777gunnerz]

38 Winchester

Be aware that a factory letter will most likely show it was shipped to a company,but due to rare gun, a letter can certainly add to its value. For the person worried you might stick a 38-40 in it if it was 38 S&W, I can safely say it would not fit. 38-40 actually shares the same bullet & diameter as 40 S&W, in a necked down 44-40 case. Great revolver in any case for your family.

 

[opoefc]

As said above, the value of the gun to a collector has been severely diminished due to the very poor refinishing, however it is still a representative piece of this rare variation. It's value to you as a family heirloom is priceless. While the gun may have been shipped in the early 1900s, the frames for these guns were all made, and in inventory before 1899, so they are classified as antiques under BATF rules. Ed.