38/44 Heavy Duty Website
- Thread starter 1Aspenhill
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1Aspenhill
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Outstanding site, Bill!
Darn nice of you to share those gorgeous old guns.
See you in Tulsa!
Darn nice of you to share those gorgeous old guns.
See you in Tulsa!
BuzzardBilly
Member
Nice Web!
Just finished reading it all.
Love those HDs.
I was lucky enough to pick-up one of the Pre-20
Austin PD HDs not long ago.
Thanks Bill
Just finished reading it all.
Love those HDs.
I was lucky enough to pick-up one of the Pre-20
Austin PD HDs not long ago.
Thanks Bill
Outstanding, Bill. That's just great!
Arlo
Edited to add: Say, could you please explain more about, "There are also instances where the Heavy Duty was manufactured in .45 Colt caliber" from your site? I'd like to hear any more details about that that you might have.
Arlo
Edited to add: Say, could you please explain more about, "There are also instances where the Heavy Duty was manufactured in .45 Colt caliber" from your site? I'd like to hear any more details about that that you might have.
Very nice! That is an excellent idea. It would be great if there was a website for each of S&W's old guns. I'd love to see a website for the original Schofield ... an internet archive and repository of all the information relative to the Schofield. Same goes for the New Model #3. The idea is that of a reference book for each model.
Very nice site! Thanks you for your efforts. Jerry
DHENRY
Member
Thanks and congratulations on a fine site, Bill.
We all can learn and enjoy from your new site!
Don
We all can learn and enjoy from your new site!
Don
S&W mania
Member
Bill,
Very nice website! Thank you for it!
S&W mania 1756
Very nice website! Thank you for it!
S&W mania 1756
OP
1Aspenhill
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Thanks for your compliments. I hope it will be of use to all.
Arlo, there were according to Roy, 12 HDs made in .45 Colt.
thanks again,
Bill
Arlo, there were according to Roy, 12 HDs made in .45 Colt.
thanks again,
Bill
Bill,
That's an interesting comment from Roy. Since the .44 Caliber Third Model Hand Ejector or Model 1926 (aka Wolf & Klar model) preceded the .38-44 HD, I wonder why he didn't say the .45 Colt was a caliber variant of the M1926? Can't we also make the assumption that the .38-44 was a higher velocity-smaller caliber "spin off" of the M1926 meant to penetrate materials that the larger, slower .44 slug couldn't? The interpretation, after all, is that the Heavy Duty is a ".38 on a .44 Frame".
Perhaps the answer to my question is that the Factory, for whatever reason, never catalogued the Wolf & Klar Model until much later after the HD came out.
Bob
OP
1Aspenhill
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Bob,
Good questions. The customer asked for a 38/44 Heavy Duty in .45 Colt and the factory made them up as a special order. Yes, the 38/44 S&W Special was high speed and led to it's increased penetration and power.
May be the customer did not know about the 1926 Model and asked for what was cataloged in the 38/44.
Hope this helps,
Bill
Good questions. The customer asked for a 38/44 Heavy Duty in .45 Colt and the factory made them up as a special order. Yes, the 38/44 S&W Special was high speed and led to it's increased penetration and power.
May be the customer did not know about the 1926 Model and asked for what was cataloged in the 38/44.
Hope this helps,
Bill
Deacon KC
Member
Great job Bill!
Bill,
The more that I think about it, the more that I believe that Roy's comments accurately reflected the feelings at the Factory at the time the guns were made.
I have always considered the family tree of the large frame, fixed sight, under-barrel lug, hand ejector to be: Triple lock->Model 1926->Heavy Duty->Model 1950 Military . I think that chronologically, and in the S&W Design Department, that was true. However, over in the Marketing Department a different dynamic was developing.
Following World War I the Second Model .44 HE was satisfying the public's need for a large frame handgun. From the Factory's point of view, they were pleased because they were able to use up a large supply of leftover Model 1917 frames and that fit well with their "waste not, want not" philosophy. The only complainant seemed to be a small pawn shop down in Fort Worth Texas that kept yammering for a heavier barrel underlug to satisfy their colorful and vocal, but small market...the southwestern lawman. Finally, in 1926 the Factory acquiesced and made up a relatively small lot of guns for that market. But the market was limited and didn't warrant the additional work/expense to justify adding the additional barrel contour to the catalog.
Things would probably have rocked along like that for some time except for one thing...that prime mover of American industry reared its head...COMPETITION! Down the street old Sam's boys came out with a hot little number called the .38 Super that was rapidly getting the attention of lawmen on both sides of the Rio Grande.
Back over on Stockbridge Street the conversation probably went something like: "Whaddawedo?" The answer came back: "Don't we have some of those heavy lugged barrel .44's somewhere?" "How about if we drilled a smaller hole in the barrel and tried to push a pill as fast as that new Colt is going?" The result is history. The S&W .38 Super Police (aka Heavy Duty) took off like a rocket and the sales of the .38 caliber version of the M1911 flattened out like its trajectory. This, primarily because the public, both civilian and lawman, was more comfortable with the revolver and still thought of the pistol as a special purpose military sidearm.
The .38-44 Heavy Duty became the darling of lawmen everywhere and the M1926 was returned to the shadows where it languished as a special order item another 10 years before it ever made it to a catalogue.
(my suppositions only)
Bob
The more that I think about it, the more that I believe that Roy's comments accurately reflected the feelings at the Factory at the time the guns were made.
I have always considered the family tree of the large frame, fixed sight, under-barrel lug, hand ejector to be: Triple lock->Model 1926->Heavy Duty->Model 1950 Military . I think that chronologically, and in the S&W Design Department, that was true. However, over in the Marketing Department a different dynamic was developing.
Following World War I the Second Model .44 HE was satisfying the public's need for a large frame handgun. From the Factory's point of view, they were pleased because they were able to use up a large supply of leftover Model 1917 frames and that fit well with their "waste not, want not" philosophy. The only complainant seemed to be a small pawn shop down in Fort Worth Texas that kept yammering for a heavier barrel underlug to satisfy their colorful and vocal, but small market...the southwestern lawman. Finally, in 1926 the Factory acquiesced and made up a relatively small lot of guns for that market. But the market was limited and didn't warrant the additional work/expense to justify adding the additional barrel contour to the catalog.
Things would probably have rocked along like that for some time except for one thing...that prime mover of American industry reared its head...COMPETITION! Down the street old Sam's boys came out with a hot little number called the .38 Super that was rapidly getting the attention of lawmen on both sides of the Rio Grande.
Back over on Stockbridge Street the conversation probably went something like: "Whaddawedo?" The answer came back: "Don't we have some of those heavy lugged barrel .44's somewhere?" "How about if we drilled a smaller hole in the barrel and tried to push a pill as fast as that new Colt is going?" The result is history. The S&W .38 Super Police (aka Heavy Duty) took off like a rocket and the sales of the .38 caliber version of the M1911 flattened out like its trajectory. This, primarily because the public, both civilian and lawman, was more comfortable with the revolver and still thought of the pistol as a special purpose military sidearm.
The .38-44 Heavy Duty became the darling of lawmen everywhere and the M1926 was returned to the shadows where it languished as a special order item another 10 years before it ever made it to a catalogue.
(my suppositions only)
Bob
DHENRY
Member
Bob,
I suspect your 'suppositions' are close to what really took place.
After all, 'bidness is bidness'.
Don
I suspect your 'suppositions' are close to what really took place.
After all, 'bidness is bidness'.
Don
OP
1Aspenhill
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Bob,
I suppose that since the 1926 was not cataloged, customers may not have known to ask for it. Again, I suppose the customer wanted a .45 Colt and not a .44 Spl. When you invent the time machine, we can go back and be "flies" on the wall!
Bill
I suppose that since the 1926 was not cataloged, customers may not have known to ask for it. Again, I suppose the customer wanted a .45 Colt and not a .44 Spl. When you invent the time machine, we can go back and be "flies" on the wall!
Bill
Clyde from Carolina
Member
Great website, thanks for getting it going and posting the link here.
OP
1Aspenhill
US Veteran, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Thanks Clyde!
Bill
Bill
Gramp's reg. mag
Member
First Class Bill
As all of your projects are. Thanks for sharing.
As all of your projects are. Thanks for sharing.
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