38/44 outdoorsman and their chambers ?

[Erocksmash]

No I'm not punching the gun to 357 lol

Shot 6 out of my 38/44 the other day 12gr of 2400 under a 158grn pill...

Talk about some incredibly sticky chambers!?!? Zero signs of over pressure so what's going on?

Ever chamber mics out at exactly. .38

In fact ever peice of fired brass I have won't go into the chambers without a good amount of pressure until they are sized obviously they just won't go in and or when I do get them in it's the same sticky extraction...

Thoughts suggestions?

Thanks
Erik

 

[Peak53]

I'm guessing chambers need a GOOD hard clean.

 

[WILDPIG]

Lead or Jacketed??? 12.0 seems plenty warm for 38 comparing to 357 2400 jacketed loads in my memory.

WILDPIG

 

[Erocksmash]

Jacketed, chambers are clean i can't see anything in em...

I have a 357 finish reamer that I some times use to clean out used guns chambers, it won't even go into the chambers...

 

[gwpercle]

Not only a good Cleaning ...

But if still sticky ... a Good Polishing .

Clean and Polish those chambers untill they are as smooth as glass and I would bet a dollar to a Dough-nut hole ... Problem Solved !

Gary

 

[H Richard]

Jacketed, chambers are clean i can't see anything in em...

I have a 357 finish reamer that I some times use to clean out used guns chambers, it won't even go into the chambers...

Then I think you should use it to ream out those chambers. It could be like the .22's that constantly need chamber reaming. S&W historically has some tight chambers. A "finishing" reamer will not harm your cylinder.

 

[Alk8944]

12.0 grains of 2400 is too hot even for a .38-44. With a 158 grain bullet you get the velocity of the original factory load that ran from 1115-1150 FPS with a 158 Gr. lead bullet using around 11.0 grains of 2400. That gives a pressure of ca. 29,000 PSI. Your load is into the .357 Magnum pressure range! Back it down a bit and see what happens.

 

[stansdds]

12.0 grains of 2400 is too hot even for a .38-44. With a 158 grain bullet you get the velocity of the original factory load that ran from 1115-1150 FPS with a 158 Gr. lead bullet using around 11.0 grains of 2400. That gives a pressure of ca. 29,000 PSI. Your load is into the .357 Magnum pressure range! Back it down a bit and see what happens.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This!
You are likely beyond 38-44 safe pressure levels.

 

[Erocksmash]

Ill back her down then and see what she does.

Through forums reads here, I came to the conclusion of 12gr of 2400, Nframe 38 that some punch to 357?

 

[2152hq]

Through the 60's and 70's,,10.5gr and 11.0 gr or 2400 powder and a 158gr cast SWC were the common top loads in most published reloading manuals for the 38special.
Hot for a K frame, but nothing that was going to cause a disintegration effect.

Then the listings began to show lower Max loadings. Probably due to better testing equip in the labs.

Then fewer and fewer loads all together for 2400,,till now.

I can remember loading 10.5gr of 2400 and the 172gr (?) Lyman 358429 bullet cast for my S&W HD in the late 60's. Never seemed to be a problem. The load was from a Lyman Manual IIRC.

The OP's loads may be using softer than should be brass cases. They expand but do not contract back enough. So the hard extraction issue.
You then cannot usually get them back into the chambers even a little way once they are fired until they are again FL sized.

Might be it,,just a thought.

 

[stansdds]

There is another possibility, especially if you bought this Outdoorsman as a used firearm. A previous owner might have also been a reloader and loaded to ++P++ levels, really trying to turn the 38 Special into a 357 Magnum and if the pressure is high enough, the chambers can be bulged.

 

[paplinker]

Before reading this I had thought the steel on all N frames in the 30s was identical in all ways. Was the REG Mag made of stronger steel to handle the pressures?

 

[Nightowl]

I have a .357 Magnum from the early 50s in nearly new condition that exhibited the same issues. Three different gunsmiths examined the cylinder and chambers and felt the cylinder was good and needed polishing. I had one polish it by hand. The improvement was simply unbelievable! Empties fell out of the cylinder. I believe this condition left the factory that way and is why the gun was still in perfect condition, except for a couple of scratches. It had other problems with carry up that I finally fixed, as well. One of those that should not have left the factory in that condition!

 

[Erocksmash]

I gave her a light polish, check all chambered in and out they all mic'd to .38 ill shoot her again and or keep polishing

 

[WILDPIG]

Backing load down a grain or so is easier than polishing and reaming. That's my thought.

WILDPIG

 

[Mike LaNier]

I agree with the others suggesting backing your loads off a bit. I have a "Pre-Model 23" Outdoorsman as well, and find it a great shooter and while the chambers will accept .357 rounds, I don't think it's a good idea to get pressures up into Magnum levels... the metallurgy on some of the older guns won't handle a steady diet of heavy loads. I've seen some blown cylinders from hot loads, and I certainly don't think we want to blow up any of these older Smiths...besides, it may hurt!