.38 or 357?

[Cmartin231995]

When carrying a .357 revolver for 2 legged threats do you use 38 loads or 357? which load and why? i typically carry buffalo bore 38 plus p 158gr lswchp. mainly because im either carrying a j frame or 2.5" k frame with short ejector rods

 

[quinine]

When carrying a .357 revolver (a 3" 686+), I load it with Remington Golden Sabres in .357 because I think they are a nice compromise. More potent than .38 Special +P but easily controllable and not as abusive to my dainty hands as a full-power .357.

 

[old tanker]

In 357 I settled on the old Lyman 358429, 170 plain plain base semi-wadcutter. According to my notes, 13.5 grains of Hercules 2400 and CCI 550 primers. Measured with a first issue PACT chronograph in the fall of 1986:

6 inch Python:
Velocity: 1278.5 fps
ES: 78.6 fps
MAD:16.2 fps

6 inch S&W Model 19:
Velocity: 1300.7 fps
ES: 83.6 fps
MAD:19.1 fps

2-1/2 inch Model 19:
Velocity: 1110.3 fps
ES: 43.8 fps
MAD:16.6 fps

The H&G #51 160 grain LSWC and 4.5 grains of Unique became the standard load for .38 Special. Good for 824.1 fps from a 4 inch Model 10.

What fun it was back when I could get buckets of wheelweights from my local tire guy.

What I wrote last time still pretty much holds. I haven't clocked that load out of the 640-1, but I figure it'll around 1100 fps. The supply of 2400 has been spotty so I have I've been thinking about Blue Dot as a substitute. My tire guy still has buckets of wheelweights, but they are mostly useless as most of them are not lead alloy any more.

 

[JBTrucker]

When I had 686 snub and 3" revolvers fired a few .357 FMJ's at the range , was best accurate with . 38 Spl +P. My model 60 was loaded with Buffalo Bore wad cutters

 

[375hh1973]

I don't carry a .357mag very often but when I do I carry the Hornady Critical Duty 135gr .357 mag

 

[Riposte1]

For a primary or a BUG I usually carry something that begins with a .4 (and usually ends in 4 or 5).

Riposte

 

[BBVZ]

You’re doing it right.

Out of short barrels, .357 gives you more blast and recoil than real world gain. Follow ups suffer, and that matters more.

A good .38 +P 158 LSWCHP (like your Buffalo Bore) is proven and shootable, especially in J/K frames with short rods.

I carry .38 +P in snubs, .357 only in longer barrels where it actually performs.

 

[BC38]

What I wrote last time still pretty much holds. I haven't clocked that load out of the 640-1, but I figure it'll around 1100 fps. The supply of 2400 has been spotty so I have I've been thinking about Blue Dot as a substitute. My tire guy still has buckets of wheelweights, but they are mostly useless as most of them are not lead alloy any more.

Yeah, the introduction of zinc wheel weights was probably the #1 reason I decided against getting into casting my own bullets.
If you don't have a reliable source of lead, casting just isn't practical IMO.
I decided I'd be better off buying and stockpiling a LOT of hard cast lead bullets, rather than making the investment in casting equipment and supplies.
As always, JMO and YMMV....

 

[lihpster]

Depends on the gun. My J frames get a diet of .38 Spl. +p. until I run through some of my stock of old Hydra Shok. When I need to resupply I probably will choose HST. In my K and L frames I use .357. And In my N frame I've got some Doubletap .357 125 gr. Bonded Defense stuff that's moving about 1600fps in a 4" gun.

 

[TF82]

If you like Buffalo Bore, you may want to check out their Barnes 140 gr. Short barrel, low flash .357 magnum.

It goes about 1150 fps from a 2.5” barrel and from any gel tests I’ve read that Barnes XPB bullet seems to expand and penetrate really well in that speed range.

 

[Argee]

When I carry my LCR 357 it has 38 Spcl ARX 77 grain ammo in it. Because the gun is for close quarter work the 77 grain bullet is barrier blind and doesn't over penetrate thus minimizing collateral damage.

 

[Phenix]

When carrying a .357 revolver for 2 legged threats do you use 38 loads or 357? which load and why? i typically carry buffalo bore 38 plus p 158gr lswchp. mainly because im either carrying a j frame or 2.5" k frame with short ejector rods

No magnum loads for me.
Since I am not likely to encounter bank robbers with automatic weapons and wearing body armor, I figure regular .38 Special or +P will be good enough if I do my part. I will be a more accurate shooter without the magnum concussion and recoil, as would most people.
My preferred carry ammo in .38 is either 148 grain lead wadcutters at 750-800 fps or 158 grain semi-hard SWC at about the same velocities. Usually the wadcutters.
Full Disclosure- I am also one of those guys that thinks that caliber is not that important for social use, and feel perfectly well protected with .22 LRHP, and .380 95 grain JHP or 95 grain FMJ Flat point. The more hits you get, the less caliber matters.
Nobody wants to get shot with anything.
So, there you are.

 

[Phenix]

Yeah, the introduction of zinc wheel weights was probably the #1 reason I decided against getting into casting my own bullets.
If you don't have a reliable source of lead, casting just isn't practical IMO.
I decided I'd be better off buying and stockpiling a LOT of hard cast lead bullets, rather than making the investment in casting equipment and supplies.
As always, JMO and YMMV....

Don’t overlook the softer cast lead bullets in handguns. Sometimes they lead the bore less than the hard ones that most people buy because they slug up to groove size better than the hardest ones. Missouri Bullet Company offers cast bullets in two different Brinnell hardnesses, and have detailed information on their website explaining why. Very good source of lead bullet info whether you buy from them or not.

 

[Ds J]

The traditional load for both 38 and 357 is 158gr, which is what I started with. Along the line I got wiser and read up on FBI loads. They carried 110gr in 38 and 125gr in 357.

Even when loaded quite hot the recoil from snubbies is better.

Note: Hornday XTP didn't open up with my 2" 357. I switched to JFP.

 

[Drakkol]

For two-legged threats from a short-barreled revolver (J-frame or 2.5" K-frame), you’re already doing exactly what I’d recommend: .38 Special +P 158gr LSWCHP (the classic “FBI load”). Stick with it.

 

[stansdds]

For self defense against two-legged predators, I stoke my 640-1 with Speer 135 grain short barrel +P 38 Special. I consider other good options to be Remington's 125 grain Golden Saber +P 38 Special. For magnum carry ammo, I think the reduced power 125 to 135 grain JHP loads from Speer (short barrel 357) and Remington (Golden Saber) are good choices.

 

[KenTheHunter]

When carrying a .357 revolver for 2 legged threats do you use 38 loads or 357? which load and why? i typically carry buffalo bore 38 plus p 158gr lswchp. mainly because im either carrying a j frame or 2.5" k frame with short ejector rods

38 Special.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

What I prefer in 1976 is basically the same today. In my Home Defense 686+ is a 125 grain JHP of the Magnum persuasion.

Now my carry is a 38 Special +P in a two inch.

 

[walkin' trails]

For me presently, the Speer Gold Dot +P 135 grain out of a J is about the limit. I’ve also used standard pressure Gold Dot 125s which made the recoil tolerable out of a 642. High Desert Cartridge Company produces a 140 grain .38 Special for short barrels as well as a low recoil .357 Mag also for short barrels.

 

[Dawin55]

If there is any chance you will ever reload go with 327 or 357 magnums, that way you can load low to magnum and tune up to what your able to shoot.

I put years in with 38sp never thinking I would go to a 357 but now I have both.

357 options may have better sights and are often heavier.

If you want one and done I would go with a kimber k6s. Otherwise consider staying away from carbon steel and pocket rust.

 

[poledorus]

When carrying a .357 revolver (a 3" 686+), I load it with Remington Golden Sabres in .357 because I think they are a nice compromise. More potent than .38 Special +P but easily controllable and not as abusive to my dainty hands as a full-power .357.

I might have to file that away for future use. Generally, I prefer heavier wadcutter profiles in .357. I may have to try the Golden Sabres for comparison.

 

[kelljor]

For self defense wandering around town I carry either a j frame or a 2" lcr, stoked with wadcutters, and critical defense lite for reloads, only because the point makes it easier to reload if needed. Same load when camping, but I use WWB then because they are a little hotter than the run of the mill WC, but without getting to the hot loads. I carry that because a) not all hollow points are guaranteed to open 100% of the time out of a short barrel (wadcutters ALWAYS cut a .38 sized hole); b) they aint that expensive and are comfortable to practice with, and IMHO you SHOULD practice with what you carry; c) for me they are controllable and I am accurate. If I am camping, depending on where, I pack a 357, either a 60 3" or a 66 2.75" with 142gr flat nose, or hornady black either in 125 or 140gr XTP. That should take care of two legged and a lot of 4 legged varmints. I don't have any big bears around here; an occasional small black bear but they mostly run. (also carry bear spray). Hell, just the sound of a 357 out of a 3" barrel is obnoxious enough to drive most anything away.
Some camp grounds don't allow carry, they say, but the snubby is ALWAYS in my pocket and the WWB wadcutters should suffice most of the time IF NEEDED. But the Maggie isn't too far away.
FWIW, I carry a revolver because the first round, maybe 2, are snake shot. Just in case. And I like to shoot them more than a semi.
I will also admit sometimes camping I am packing a Ruger Wrangler, but again with snake shot the first (or two).

 

[guntha45]

What I wrote last time still pretty much holds. I haven't clocked that load out of the 640-1, but I figure it'll around 1100 fps. The supply of 2400 has been spotty so I have I've been thinking about Blue Dot as a substitute. My tire guy still has buckets of wheelweights, but they are mostly useless as most of them are not lead alloy any more.

Good luck finding Blue Dot. I have been looking for it for quite awhile and there has been none to be found, at least where I am looking. It seems that Alliant is focusing on their new powders. Based on the price, they are quite proud of them!

 

[Riposte1]

The traditional load for both 38 and 357 is 158gr, which is what I started with. Along the line I got wiser and read up on FBI loads. They carried 110gr in 38 and 125gr in 357.

Even when loaded quite hot the recoil from snubbies is better.

Note: Hornday XTP didn't open up with my 2" 357. I switched to JFP.

I don't recall the FBI using either 110 or 125 gr. loads - I do recall the Treasury and Secret Service using them.

When I took a Firearms instructors course at Quantico they had switched over from158 SWCHP to 147 gr. Hydra-shok .38 +P+ (that is what they carried in their .357s also). Honestly it wasn't much of a load (but they did let us shoot 2700 rounds of it during a week). I will say it was quite accurate!

Of course things may have changed since 1992?

Riposte

 

[Doc TH]

No magnum loads for me.
Since I am not likely to encounter bank robbers with automatic weapons and wearing body armor, I figure regular .38 Special or +P will be good enough if I do my part. I will be a more accurate shooter without the magnum concussion and recoil, as would most people.
My preferred carry ammo in .38 is either 148 grain lead wadcutters at 750-800 fps or 158 grain semi-hard SWC at about the same velocities. Usually the wadcutters.
Full Disclosure- I am also one of those guys that thinks that caliber is not that important for social use, and feel perfectly well protected with .22 LRHP, and .380 95 grain JHP or 95 grain FMJ Flat point. The more hits you get, the less caliber matters.
Nobody wants to get shot with anything.
So, there you are.

Getting hits is the most important criterion; 2nd is permanent hearing loss. Wadcutters don't get enough respect.

 

[n5ama]

Getting hits is the most important criterion; 2nd is permanent hearing loss. Wadcutters don't get enough respect.

I like a full wadcutter for self defense and also enjoy shooing my model 52. A very long time ago, I played with the wadcutter and some cast round nose on water jugs. I was impressed with what the wadcutter did versus the round nose bullet.

I don’t recall what I used to load the wadcutter (probably 2400) but I’m sure it wasn’t loaded very hot. I have no idea what was in the factory round nose but it wasn’t as impressive as the wadcutter on water bottles. I guess it wasn’t a fair test but I felt the wadcutter would get the job done at close range. I was shooting a Combat Masterpiece that my Dad bought me as my first handgun. I kick myself for being young “and stupid” and trading it for a Buffalo Bill 30-30 lever action.

 

[RebCop]

I carry Blaser .357 in my Kimber K6S as it's accurate and gets the job done.

 

[JWintergreen]

It depends.

Much of the decision should be based on how much recoil, muzzle flash, and report the shooter can tolerate. Contrary to popular belief, .357 Magnum will outperform .38 Special out of a short barrel by a considerable margin. However, one may go past the point of diminishing returns.

There is a huge rift today between those who still adhere to the "stopping power" mantra and those who believe all previously held viewpoints on handgun cartridge performance were espoused by knuckle dragging cavemen. Like most things in life, I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

For short barrel all steel J frames and short barrel K frames, a warm .38 loading or a mild .357 would work just fine for most people. If you want something that has very mild recoil, and is adequate for defense in an airweight J frame, 148 grain wadcutters would be a great choice.

 

[Doug M.]

RNL is among the worst choices in any caliber and certainly in .38. I would only use that load to make empties for reloading.

I just got rid of my last J frame and hadn't have a .38 J in years. Dislike J frames intensely and they serve no purpose for my life. Why have one when I can carry my G33 in a Kramer pocket holster just as easily and have twice the ammo and more power in an easier to shoot platform? That would be a solution to a completely non-existent problem. I carried the G33 in uniform as a bug for well over a decade.

I have an M66 4" and a K38. While the K38 is a target piece I restrict to plinking and making myself feel good (so wadcutters), I would use the same ammo as I usually do in the M66. The primary choice is .38 SWC at standard velocity. Good shape, reasonably effective, and controllable enough to allow for adequate precision while shooting fast. (Figure just under two seconds from draw to first shot as a reasonable standard for my current life, and the next 3 shots in about another second. FOR ME, that is about the same time as 2 good shots with the Silvertip.) No need to consider possible expansion. The vast majority of the research with which I am familiar shows no value to putting .357s in a short barrel and they counterproductive to speed and precision in a J frame.

I sometimes load 4 of the SWC and 2 145 grain Silvertips for possible need for additional power, but I do not qualify nearly as well with the Silvertips in terms of time. I have recently tried the Gold Dot short barrel .357 and it seems that it might be a good choice. Not near the recoil and the noise of Silvertips, but likely a bit more terminal effect than the SWC. The Silvertips are more important to me in loading my Marlin .357, where the increased power is more likely to be of value.

 

[Riposte1]

I carry Blaser .357 in my Kimber K6S as it's accurate and gets the job done.

I don't think I have tried Blazer in .357, but I like it in .44 Magnum - in my 4" 629 the 240 JHP Blazer gets just over 1000fps - I don't care much for full magnum loads but that load is fine - I really don't care if it expands or not.

I might try to dig up some Blazer .357s if they make it in 158 gr. - if it is like the .44 I would not be afraid to shoot that in a K-frame.

I have two cases of Norma 158 - that stuff is stout and I will not shoot it in a K-frame - a friend did and it locked up his M-19! I use it mainly for rifles anyway.

Riposte