38 S & W

[terrier]

Just got a like new Model 32 Terrier in .38 S&W. Have loaded up some 125gr cast loads with 4.5 grs of Unique and 158 gr cast with 3.5 grs of Unique. Too cold for the range for about a week so wondered if any of you have tried this loading or close to it. Got this load from the Lyman book.

 

[terrier]

Just got a like new Model 32 Terrier in .38 S&W. Have loaded up some 125gr cast loads with 4.5 grs of Unique and 158 gr cast with 3.5 grs of Unique. Too cold for the range for about a week so wondered if any of you have tried this loading or close to it. Got this load from the Lyman book.

 

[jbouwens]

I load my 38 S&Ws with a 158 round nose over 2.5 grains of Winchester 231 or HP-38 for my victory models. They are on the light side but don't mind that-- they are for pure fun anyway.

Good luck with getting out and shootin.

 

[sjmjax]

I've been using 3.0 grains of Unique under a generic 158 grain LSWC. I get very good results with that load in several S&W 33's and Colt Police Positive revolvers. One slightly oversize hole at 7 yards is typical off hand. Those little guns can be very accurate at that range. Got Chronograph readings of a pretty consistant 725fps. I've also had good luck with the same bullet and 2.7 grains 231 at 750fps.

Haven't tried anything quite as hot as your 3.5 grain load. I did try some 125 grain loads but all shot very low.

 

[terrier]

Thanks for the info, I will shoot these in the next week at the range and post results. If this gun wasn't like new and the Terrier model I probably would back off and I may anyway. Good info on the 125's, may pull all those and go with all 158's if they also shoot low.

 

[lzhome]

Related but a little off topic:

Can I use .38/.357 dies and .38 S&W Converson Kit to load on my Dillon 550?

I have a couple of pocket guns in this caliber but never got arround to researching the reloading.

 

[terrier]

Good question, I just ordered the Lee dies from Midway and they work great. Very easy shell to load. I did try and adjust my .38 special dies but they were not even close.

 

[RON in PA]

You can't use 38 special dies to load 38 S&W. The diameter of the cartridges is different.

 

[Bib]

Hollow base swaged wadcutters work well...the soft bullet will bump-up a bit in diameter and give good accuracy.

 

[walnutred]

Originally posted by RON in PA:
You can't use 38 special dies to load 38 S&W. The diameter of the cartridges is different.

With a little experimenting you can use 9x19 dies to reload 38 S&W. Obviously you need to change expander dies and adjust the crimp die so you don;t over size the bullet. Case wise I've always suspected the 9x19 was developed as a high power, rimless 38 S&W. In fact. If I had a 9mm revolver designed for moon clips I'd try 38 S&W cases as a 9mm Para Auto Rim.

There were contemporary accounts of British soldiers using captured German 9mm ammo in their 38/200 revolvers when ammo stock of the proper ammo ran out. Had to poke the empties out with a stick but at that point I don't think they expected a field reload.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I would suggest being very careful how hot you load rounds for the .38 S&W. Most of those revolvers weren't capable of pressures that you would see in a .38 Special round. After all, the SAAMI pressure limit for the 38 S&W is only 14,500 PSI. Your loads are at the top end or maybe a little over. I'm not telling you what to do, I'm only asking you to be careful.

BTW, I made up some 38/200 rounds in the Fall for my Enfield No2 that were a lot of fun to shoot!

 

[terrier]

After all the posts I pulled all the loads and loaded them back with 3.0 grs of Unique and 158 gr LRN. Hopefully can shoot on Monday and will post something then. The Lyman manual has listed several loads that are much hotter than others, curious.

 

[terrier]

Tough day at the range today, wind and more wind. The little .38 S & W did not do well, 3.0 grs Unique and 158 gr LRN shot weak and high. Very good groups considering the wind, but every shot was high holding at bottom of bull. Loads sounded and felt weak. Penetrated 1 phone book barely. I also had 5 light primer strikes, all went off the second go round. Not at all a scientific test for sure but will give it one more try. This time 3.5 grs and 126gr swc.

 

[walnutred]

For older ctges like 32 S&W and 38 S&W I still use my Lyman 45 for load data. I think your original 3.5 gn loading was within the Lyman data for fixed frame revolvers. From your description of your light primer strikes I suspect the primer was not fully seated.

Modern 38 S&W brass is very stout. I've loaded Remington 38 S&W brass with 9mm +P specs for use in a 9mm Federal. The brass held up fine.

However if it gets too frustrating for you I'm looking for a Terrier

Would yo be interested is an I frame 32 Hand Ejector

 

[terrier]

Let me think about that one, I am really thinking of going up to a later model snubbie since I have thousands of rounds of .38 special loaded. I usually shoot Ruger Security Six and a SP 101. The SP is a little heavy to carry and that is why I bought the Terrier. Good thought on the primer not being seated fully, will check it out muy pronto!.

 

[Bib]

What diameter bullets are you using? The nominal bore size for the .38 S&W is .360", not .357 or 8. That's why I suggested the soft HBWC bullets so they bump-up to bore diameter.

 

[terrier]

Yes Bib I was using the .357 bullets and think your thought is well worth a try. Will buy some tomorrow and give it a try, makes sense to me. wonder if I can buy a mold for .360 bullets.

 

[rayb]

re molds. I think there was a group buy some time back on the castboolet forum. I think Lee make them.

Google is your friend.
rayb

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Originally posted by terrier:
Tough day at the range today, wind and more wind. The little .38 S & W did not do well, 3.0 grs Unique and 158 gr LRN shot weak and high. Very good groups considering the wind, but every shot was high holding at bottom of bull. Loads sounded and felt weak. Penetrated 1 phone book barely. I also had 5 light primer strikes, all went off the second go round. Not at all a scientific test for sure but will give it one more try. This time 3.5 grs and 126gr swc.

That's because the 38 S&W is a weak round, that's the whole reason for the .38 Special being developed. I know you want more from the 38 S&W but like I said before, most of the guns made for that caliber just can't take it. For the most part if you get 700 fps you are maxed out with a 38 S&W round. It never was a good SD round, just ask the British Officers who were hacked apart by 230lb Natives after they emptied their revolver into them!

 

[terrier]

Maybe I should have stated in the first post that this is not a self defense gun. I boondock a lot in the mountains and fishing. This is my packin gun for potting a rabbit or grouse. For SD is have my trusty Security Six. 700fps would be just fine with me. The gun is amazingly accurate even in the strong wind at 25' I got good groups.