.38 Short Colt Loads for USPSA

[Ignatz]

what about using a .38 s&w ? why not ? just asking.

357 mag, 38 spl, Colt long and Colt short are similar in dimensions, except for different lengths. They also have that groove around the base where people snap in their moonclips.
38 S&W is its own breed of cartridge for older revolvers that can't handle higher pressures.
BTW, if you have tons of 357 or 38spl brass, and lots of time, you can cut your own brass to your desired length, and call it whatever you want. Just don't go shorter than Colt short!

 

[Cobbler]

So I see your original question was never answered, just questions of your question. Ever find anything out? I'm looking to do the same thing.

 

[DWalt]

The .38 Short Colt is an advantage in loading the cylinder as well as emptying. When loaded with a long ogive(nearly pointed bullet) in the 150 to 170gr weight range, the moonclips drop in very quickly since they have a very short travel.....same coming out, especially if some cartridges are still full.

AS far as handloading goes, the .38 Short Colt is very efficient using fast powders and heavy bullets. Much less empty space between powder and bullet and no unburned powder to get under the extractor.

Exactly. By the way, you can also use .38 Short Colt in any .38 S&W revolver. Fit in the chamber is a little sloppy, but it works OK.

 

[S&WIowegan]

So I see your original question was never answered, just questions of your question. Ever find anything out? I'm looking to do the same thing.

I realized the same thing in reviewing this old thread. I am a little reluctant to name my loads which are outside the normal loading manuals. However, none of us who are using 38 Short Colt have any intention of creating super sonic high pressure rounds. We load a heavy bullet to sub-sonic speeds. I currently use Bayou Bullet 160 grain LRN coated sized .358" behind 3.0 grains of Vihta Vouri N310. Cartridge overall length is 1.16". Other powders used are Clays, VV N320, Titegroup, etc. All are decidedly on the fast burn end of the spectrum. It is essential to use a chronograph and start your charges closer to 2.0 grains than 3.0. Work up by .2 grain increments until you comfortably exceed the 125 power factor.

Post us here when you get results. We just hosted the Midwest ICORE regional in Iowa this weekend. Shooters from around the US(Florida to California) attended and no two fielded identical loads. Bullets were 150 to 170 grains and mostly coated or plated(Rich Wolfe, ICORE national champ 2014 and 2015 uses Berry bullets). Several from Iowa used jacketed bullets for reasons that elude me.

 

[S&WIowegan]

Exactly. By the way, you can also use .38 Short Colt in any .38 S&W revolver. Fit in the chamber is a little sloppy, but it works OK.

Just an FYI: 38 Short Colt handloads will also chamber very easily in the S&W Model 929 and fire reliably. The downside is the brass is blown-out noticeably and will certainly shorten the life span of the Starline brass. I have personally tried this and will use 9mm brass in my 929 since used brass is cheap and plentiful.

 

[Cobbler]

So for me, I look at the .38Special round and see a very old cartridge but very proven. Personally I feel the 38 Special case has so much room for developing a personal load that it's not surprising no one settles on anything that is, say "standard". There is so much room in the Special case that I personally looked at the 38SC case and thought, man that IS short. Fast powder in short cases don't leave a lot of wiggle room testing and slow powder need more room. I like a little more room so I cut some cases to .850",feeling this is enough to eject and safer for developing loads. I shoot 125g now in my 627 in .38Special so I'll most likely stay there for starters. Where I shoot I don't need to make power factors so I have that luxury for the time being until I venture out to other matches that do require stepping it up. Some say "just buy a 9mm" and I say "YOU buy it for me and I'll shoot it". Right now a set of 38SC dies are cheaper than the difference between my 627 Pro and a 9mm, plus I love the pointability of the 4" barrel. I tested some of my loads a while back with decent results but since I just moved to a new house my **** is everywhere and I can't get my hands on that data at this time.

 

[S&WIowegan]

A number of shooters have worked up loads using shortened 38 Special brass. I have not done so therefore my feedback is hearsay from very experienced handloaders. They report 38 Special case-walls thicken gradually as they cut them down which eventually prevents bullet seating.

Please keep us informed on your efforts.

 

[TAROMAN]

I shoot a 327 TRR8 in various speed games.
Have shot .357, 38 Special, and 38 Short Colt with varied results.
Finally settled on "38 Mid". That's a 38 Special case shortened to .900" (same as Super 38).
Load the Bayou 160 over 3.1 grains of N310. 813 FPS.
Discovered this concept on a board popular with speed shooters.

 

[Cobbler]

Well I'm getting there. Decided to go with the "38short "Medium" case cut to .850". I loaded 5 rounds only to check pressure first, so I have no speeds for you but something kind of interesting. I loaded BE-86 @ 4.0,4.2,4.4,4.6 and 4.8g pushing X-Treme plated 147g .356" 9mm bullets at 20yds and though each shot rose, all were within 2.0" group. I used my S&W 686 no-dash 4" w/Burris FastFire 3moa dot sight, 1.185oal. No sighns of excessive pressure and all the cases came out with no effort. Next round of shooting I'll load starting at 4.6g and take my chronograpgh and stop when I reach a minimum of 885fps which will give me a power factor of 130 for shooting the PSA Shootout. Once I hit that speed then I'll load several around that speed and shoot for group. I also want to try some Revolver Supply 160g BRN coated. I think a long bearing surface is key. What oal are you running TAROMAN?

 

[625 Shooter]

I realize this is an old thread, but I just noticed it.

I was (and to some degree still am) a M625 .45ACP shooter for both USPSA and ICORE. But I finally "bit the bullet" and got a M627 after USPSA implemented the new rule to allow 8-shot revolvers (minor PF).

Which case to use? I debated and debated. Short Colt, Long Colt, or "Mid" Colt? Many think the Mid Colt (which is a Long Colt or Special shortened to .9") is optimum. And many opt for the Short Colt.

I'm in the latter group; I adopted the Short Colt, perhaps primarily because I didn't want to spend the time to shorten Long Colt cases. And I'm quite, quite happy with the Short Colt!

The shorter cases, as noted by some here, DO load and eject faster. How much faster? I suppose that depends on shooter skill, but MANY better shooters do use the shorter cases (whether it be Short Colt or Mid Colt.)

My load: Starline .38 Short Colt cases, Fed small pistol primers, 3.3 or 3.4 gr of Tite Group and either Xtreme 147 gr copper plated (billed and sold as 9mm 147 gr .357") or Montana Gold 142 gr .357".

Works GREAT. It didn't take long to come to love the M627 and .38 Short Colt.

 

[DWalt]

I load the .38 Short Colt exactly like I load .38 S&W, and use any .38 S&W recipes. But I don't do any competitive shooting these days. The .38 SC is great for use in .38 Special snubbies having short extractor rods as it ejects completely - I use it exclusively in those for fun shooting.

 

[Cobbler]

I realize this is an old thread, but I just noticed it.

I was (and to some degree still am) a M625 .45ACP shooter for both USPSA and ICORE. But I finally "bit the bullet" and got a M627 after USPSA implemented the new rule to allow 8-shot revolvers (minor PF).

Which case to use? I debated and debated. Short Colt, Long Colt, or "Mid" Colt? Many think the Mid Colt (which is a Long Colt or Special shortened to .9") is optimum. And many opt for the Short Colt.

I'm in the latter group; I adopted the Short Colt, perhaps primarily because I didn't want to spend the time to shorten Long Colt cases. And I'm quite, quite happy with the Short Colt!

The shorter cases, as noted by some here, DO load and eject faster. How much faster? I suppose that depends on shooter skill, but MANY better shooters do use the shorter cases (whether it be Short Colt or Mid Colt.)

My load: Starline .38 Short Colt cases, Fed small pistol primers, 3.3 or 3.4 gr of Tite Group and either Xtreme 147 gr copper plated (billed and sold as 9mm 147 gr .357") or Montana Gold 142 gr .357".

Works GREAT. It didn't take long to come to love the M627 and .38 Short Colt.

Welcome to the M627, I love mine. The reason I went to the (mid .9) is bullet jump. I was looking for a bullet with the RN profile like a 9mm for faster loading so I tried the Precision Bullets 147RNFP coated and found after shooting only about 100 rounds that my bore and cylinder was absolutely leaded, or was it the coating being burned off? I came to the unprofessional theory that with the shorter bearing surface of the 147g vs. the 160g, as the base of the bullet leaves the case mouth, the flame travels around and in front of the bullet before it can seal the chamber of the cylinder, engulfing the bullet and chamber with hot flames and possibly melting the coating and lead, causing massive build up of deposits. I loaded some powder coated158g to try the "heavy bullet-fast burn rate" theory and had great results in accuracy, along with a clean gun so I was sold on that theory. I found coated 160RN at Revolver Supply and loaded some up and LOVE them. I also found some Montana Gold 158gFMJHP for self defense and they shot great too. So I feel the longer bearing surface of the heavier bullet combined with the longer case of .9" allows the bullet to seal the chamber before the flame has a chance to "get ahead" of the bullet and cause bad things. I hope this makes sense, but it's just my thinking and I'm not a ballistician. I'm working on the .38 Mid w/Montana Gold 158 FMJHP for self defense in all my .38 Special revolvers, especially my M49 snubbie, great extraction with the short rod like DWalt found. So far my .38Mid is 3.5g Bullseye, 160gLRN coated, 1.330"oal. The Montana Gold 158FMJHP (3.5g Bullseye but still developing) 1.200"oal. This load is running average 976fps. which is getting on with the program @ a 154 Power Factor, recoil is still very manageable. She's snappy but not snotty.

 

[AzShooter]

Side question - can one use the .38 Short Colt and still be within the Power Factor for USPSA (which, I believe is higher than in ICOR)?

wyo-man

38 Short Colt is perfect for making minor. I've been shooting it for about 15 years, getting on the early band wagon.

I use Solo 1000 ( hard to come by now ) and Red Dot. There are actually loads listed in the manual for Red Dot so that's the best powder to go to. You can also use 9mm load data with no problems.

 

[625 Shooter]

38 Short Colt is perfect for making minor. I've been shooting it for about 15 years, getting on the early band wagon.

I use Solo 1000 ( hard to come by now ) and Red Dot. There are actually loads listed in the manual for Red Dot so that's the best powder to go to. You can also use 9mm load data with no problems.

Agreed. I use .38 Short Colt for both ICORE and USPSA.

ICORE minimum PF is 120. USPSA minimum PF is 125.

My load is about 128 PF. Some folks want a bit more, which is no problem.

 

[WhistlerSWE]

Just an FYI: 38 Short Colt handloads will also chamber very easily in the S&W Model 929 and fire reliably. The downside is the brass is blown-out noticeably and will certainly shorten the life span of the Starline brass. I have personally tried this and will use 9mm brass in my 929 since used brass is cheap and plentiful.

Since the chambers of the 929 is not 9x19, but 9x21 I use .38 Special brass trimmed down to .820" (20.8mm). I have had a lot of trouble getting it to feed 9x19 brass when using coated .357-bullets, also the residue buildup in the ring forward of the 9x19mm case mouth binds with the case when having fired 200-30 rounds on big matches. This problem has gone away with shortened .38 Special brass.

I have tried true 9x21 mm brass, but had problems with the clips and essentially the same problem as with 9x19, the brass either swages the bullet resulting in leading or the bras bulges and will not chamber.

So far .820 special brass seem to work fine in my 929!

I load them with 9mm sizer, 9mm expander, 9mm seater and then a dedicated Hoanady seater that I use for crimp only - it is a true roll crimp with suits fine for this kind of round.

 

[old tanker]

what about using a .38 s&w ? why not ? just asking.

Maybe it's time to break out the Enfield and a pith helmet. .38-200 will easily make power factor, eh old chap?

 

[DWalt]

The .38 Short Colt is a very efficient case for use with smokeless powder. Aside from the increased bullet travel to reach the barrel in a revolver, the .38 SC can be easily loaded to duplicate any .38 Special performance, assuming use in a modern revolver. The main advantage is that the short cases allow complete fired case extraction, especially in snubbies having short extraction rods. I use fairly hot light bullet .38 SC loads in my Colt Detective Special and my M&P snubbies. They work fine. I imagine that the .38 SC case is more popular now than it has been since the late 19th Century, and rightly so.

 

[AzShooter]

Hey Everyone,

So I have pretty much settled on buying a 627PC and loading .38 Short Colts for my new USPSA gun. I was curious if anyone could help me start out with my load data? I will be using Titegroup powder and a 158gn Berry RN. I load my 147gn 9mm with 3.2 gn Titegroup and get 130PF, So I was looking at loading my 158 gn to start with 2.5gn and work up from there.


Any input or suggestions?

.38 short colt can substitute 9 mm load data so start with your 2.5 grain and work up. You should be able to make 130 pf with no trouble.

I used Solo 1000 ( which is hard to find now ) with great luck. Now I'm using Vhitavhouri N320 with good luck.