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Continuing to test these new powders;
IMR Target - CCI 500 primer
IMR Blue - WSPM primer
244 - WSP primer
572 - WSP primer
Loads were shot off the bench at 25 yards.
Velocity data taken with an Oehler Model 33
Screens centered 8' from muzzle.
Gun; 4" 686 Factory Sights
This time looking into the 38 Special 125gr JHP +P arena and see what happens.
This could be considered a continuation of the work done two years ago with the 125gr JHP +P in 38 Special. The same 686 gun was used this time as last time.
A Look at 125gr. JHP +P
Last time the Magtech 125gr JHP used. This time, a generic 125gr JHP was used that are available at NE Shooters Supply for a very reasonable price.
Diameter averaged .3573"
With each of the new powders I loaded a four load ladder, five rounds each.
IMR lists as max loads;
572 6.1grs.
244 5.6grs.
IMR Target 5.0grs.
IMR Blue is uncharted territory.
Plus some favorite handloads just for comparison.
Please bear in mind this is experimental exploration and not to be considered as loading data.
So here is how it all went;
First, the Buffalo Bore and Remington factory loads.
When I sat down at the bench to shoot the BB load, I was expecting something fairly snappy. To my surprise the load was very pleasant to shoot considering the velocity it was delivering. Whatever the propellant BB is using here, at 6.2grs., it is outstanding in this application.
I did a pull-down here;
38 Special Buffalo Bore 125gr JHP +P 20B - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com
For those that carry a .38 Special rated for +P ammo, this load would be worth looking into.
The Remington load shot virtually the same as last time.
Now for the handloads.
I have to say this generic 125gr bullet shot pretty well. There are some nice tight groups here.
The smallest Standard Deviations were turned in by IMR Target, IMR Blue and Bullseye in that order.
Let's start with 572.
Very strange to say the least.. I started with 5.8grs. which only clocked at an average of 721 fps and had an extreme spread of 352 fps!. I don't believe I had ever seen anything like that before.
But then at 6.0grs., very close to IMR's max load, it behaved a lot better at 902 fps and 31 fps spread. But then, at 6.2 grs. it went backwards and delivered 888 fps. Then at 6.4grs., it delivered 923 fps.. A whopping 21 fps gain over 6.0grs.
I had no issues with 572 in the .40 or 10mm. Nor did I see anything weird with .357 Mag.
I originally thought that 572 was just cold blooded in 38 Special, but what I believe is going on here is 572 wants to be burned at a higher pressure. In fact, Winchester has stated that 572 is ideally suited for 9mm and 38 Super +P loads, which are definitely relatively high working pressure loads.
So to make 572 work well in 38 Special, it would have to be loaded up toward 357 Mag pressures. For this reason I don't believe 572 will be very useful in 38 Special.
BTW, I believe to some extent, the same thing is occurring with Sport Pistol in 38 Special. I had no issues with auto loaders at all with Sport Pistol and would shoot right along with IMR Target and 244 in the .40 and 10mm.
For this reason I did not test Sport Pistol here.
Now for 244 and IMR Target;
Both of these had a very distinct velocity jump in the ladder, 244 between 5.4 and 5.6, and IMR Target between 5.2 and 5.4. They both shot virtually the same velocity at 5.6grs.
5.6grs. 244 looks to be a textbook +P load and produced the tightest group in the ladder.
5.0grs. IMR Target, the max load, seems a little slow for a +P load.. 5.2grs. looks much better.
IMR Blue did fairly well. I was expecting IMR Blue to trail behind Blue Dot quite a bit, as it did in prior trials with other applications, but this time it didn't trail much at all here.
IMR Blue also had a distinct velocity jump in the middle of the ladder.
9.9grs. produced the best group and it was also the snappiest. I would suspect this load to be hovering around the 20K psi mark.
The other handloads did ok with this bullet. It is clear, looking at the graph, the generic bullet shoots slower than the Magtech bullet, the exception being BE-86, where the two are virtually the same. Ambient temps were fairly close so that wouldn't account the change.
Here is an updated graph of the project;
Factory loads are on the bottom.
The 'm' under some entries represent the WSPM primer.
Black is what was recorded two years ago. Red is what was done recently.
Well that's it for now. Hopefully this will be helpful.
As is often the case with projects like this, we set out to answer some questions, but we instead wind up with more questions..
Continuing to test these new powders;
IMR Target - CCI 500 primer
IMR Blue - WSPM primer
244 - WSP primer
572 - WSP primer
Loads were shot off the bench at 25 yards.
Velocity data taken with an Oehler Model 33
Screens centered 8' from muzzle.
Gun; 4" 686 Factory Sights
This time looking into the 38 Special 125gr JHP +P arena and see what happens.
This could be considered a continuation of the work done two years ago with the 125gr JHP +P in 38 Special. The same 686 gun was used this time as last time.
A Look at 125gr. JHP +P
Last time the Magtech 125gr JHP used. This time, a generic 125gr JHP was used that are available at NE Shooters Supply for a very reasonable price.
Diameter averaged .3573"
With each of the new powders I loaded a four load ladder, five rounds each.
IMR lists as max loads;
572 6.1grs.
244 5.6grs.
IMR Target 5.0grs.
IMR Blue is uncharted territory.
Plus some favorite handloads just for comparison.
Please bear in mind this is experimental exploration and not to be considered as loading data.
So here is how it all went;
First, the Buffalo Bore and Remington factory loads.
When I sat down at the bench to shoot the BB load, I was expecting something fairly snappy. To my surprise the load was very pleasant to shoot considering the velocity it was delivering. Whatever the propellant BB is using here, at 6.2grs., it is outstanding in this application.
I did a pull-down here;
38 Special Buffalo Bore 125gr JHP +P 20B - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com
For those that carry a .38 Special rated for +P ammo, this load would be worth looking into.
The Remington load shot virtually the same as last time.
Now for the handloads.
I have to say this generic 125gr bullet shot pretty well. There are some nice tight groups here.
The smallest Standard Deviations were turned in by IMR Target, IMR Blue and Bullseye in that order.
Let's start with 572.
Very strange to say the least.. I started with 5.8grs. which only clocked at an average of 721 fps and had an extreme spread of 352 fps!. I don't believe I had ever seen anything like that before.
But then at 6.0grs., very close to IMR's max load, it behaved a lot better at 902 fps and 31 fps spread. But then, at 6.2 grs. it went backwards and delivered 888 fps. Then at 6.4grs., it delivered 923 fps.. A whopping 21 fps gain over 6.0grs.
I had no issues with 572 in the .40 or 10mm. Nor did I see anything weird with .357 Mag.
I originally thought that 572 was just cold blooded in 38 Special, but what I believe is going on here is 572 wants to be burned at a higher pressure. In fact, Winchester has stated that 572 is ideally suited for 9mm and 38 Super +P loads, which are definitely relatively high working pressure loads.
So to make 572 work well in 38 Special, it would have to be loaded up toward 357 Mag pressures. For this reason I don't believe 572 will be very useful in 38 Special.
BTW, I believe to some extent, the same thing is occurring with Sport Pistol in 38 Special. I had no issues with auto loaders at all with Sport Pistol and would shoot right along with IMR Target and 244 in the .40 and 10mm.
For this reason I did not test Sport Pistol here.
Now for 244 and IMR Target;
Both of these had a very distinct velocity jump in the ladder, 244 between 5.4 and 5.6, and IMR Target between 5.2 and 5.4. They both shot virtually the same velocity at 5.6grs.
5.6grs. 244 looks to be a textbook +P load and produced the tightest group in the ladder.
5.0grs. IMR Target, the max load, seems a little slow for a +P load.. 5.2grs. looks much better.
IMR Blue did fairly well. I was expecting IMR Blue to trail behind Blue Dot quite a bit, as it did in prior trials with other applications, but this time it didn't trail much at all here.
IMR Blue also had a distinct velocity jump in the middle of the ladder.
9.9grs. produced the best group and it was also the snappiest. I would suspect this load to be hovering around the 20K psi mark.
The other handloads did ok with this bullet. It is clear, looking at the graph, the generic bullet shoots slower than the Magtech bullet, the exception being BE-86, where the two are virtually the same. Ambient temps were fairly close so that wouldn't account the change.
Here is an updated graph of the project;
Factory loads are on the bottom.
The 'm' under some entries represent the WSPM primer.
Black is what was recorded two years ago. Red is what was done recently.
Well that's it for now. Hopefully this will be helpful.
As is often the case with projects like this, we set out to answer some questions, but we instead wind up with more questions..
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