38 Special, 158 RNFP, 3.5gns of Bullseye

[walnutred]

In looking at my Lyman 45 manual they list 3.5 gns BE as the factory duplication load/max powder charge, for this bullet weight.

My Hornady book lists 3.8 gns BE as the STARTING point for lead 158 gn bullets. How can one manuals maximum load be below the starting load for another????

I remember reading in Handloader that gas checks can raise pressure a lot. The Lyman book is using the 158 GC bullet and they Hornady a swaged plain base. But still, this information seems odd.

 

[walnutred]

In looking at my Lyman 45 manual they list 3.5 gns BE as the factory duplication load/max powder charge, for this bullet weight.

My Hornady book lists 3.8 gns BE as the STARTING point for lead 158 gn bullets. How can one manuals maximum load be below the starting load for another????

I remember reading in Handloader that gas checks can raise pressure a lot. The Lyman book is using the 158 GC bullet and they Hornady a swaged plain base. But still, this information seems odd.

 

[pownal55]

i can't answer your specific question but i know that load data from one manual to another can be all over the place. that is the reason starting at the bottom and working your way up is smart. most often, loads below maximum will be more accurate.

 

[PeterM]

I don't know that this pertains to what your asking, but I routinely use 3 grains of Bullseye behind a 158 LSWC (about 14-16 Brinnel) resulting in my .38 Special Model 67 being one of the most accurate guns I own. Yes, it shoots a bit dirty but with no leading whatsoever.

 

[walnutred]

Someone whose opinion I respect once told me that the problem with Bullseye is they use powdered graphite to keep the grains of powder from sticking together. The residue you see after firing is actually the graphite. He also advised me to turn my kegs of Bullseye every few months because the graphite can settle out and cause erratic results.

This guy has fired my weight in BE a couple times over, in competition, with success, so I rotate my kegs of BE.

I've used the 3.5 gns loading before with no problem, Just never looked at the data in the Hornady book and it surprised me. I'm kind of looking for a universal powder charge. 3.5 gns for 158gn SWC in 38 Special has worked in the past and 3.5gns for 200 gn SWC in 45 ACP has worked in the past. Now I'm planning on loading 121 gn lead RN for 9x19, and 3.5 gns of BE is a recommended light load.

In cross checking data I noticed the seeming discrepancy between the two manuals.

 

[FrankD45]

Originally posted by walnutred:
In looking at my Lyman 45 manual they list 3.5 gns BE as the factory duplication load/max powder charge, for this bullet weight.

My Hornady book lists 3.8 gns BE as the STARTING point for lead 158 gn bullets. How can one manuals maximum load be below the starting load for another????

I remember reading in Handloader that gas checks can raise pressure a lot. The Lyman book is using the 158 GC bullet and they Hornady a swaged plain base. But still, this information seems odd.

I looked at my Lyman #44 and Hornady #7. The Lyman book has the 158gr cast as you noted with a factory duplication (max) load of 3.5gr Bullseye. Hornady #7 shows a 158gr cast lead bullet with a starting load of 2.8gr and a maximum of 3.7gr of Bullseye. The 158gr jacketed bullet has a starting load of 3.4gr and a maximum of 4.5gr (+P load). I think the data you referenced may have mixed cast loads with jacketed.

I hope that helps,

Frank

 

[BE Mike]

I may be mistaken, but IIRC the lower charges are for a swaged bullet rather than a hard cast bullet.

 

[walnutred]

Originally posted by BE Mike:
I may be mistaken, but IIRC the lower charges are for a swaged bullet rather than a hard cast bullet.

According to the old manuals I have you have it backwards. The 3.5 load is from the Lyman 45 manual and reveferances the bullet by the bullet mold number. The Hornady manual shows their swaged lead projectiles, with the higher powder charge.

You would think it would be the way you say it, but it's not. Maybe the swaged lead offers more resistance in the bore because it's softer?

 

[Skip Sackett]

Nutty,
I have used 3.5gr of Bullseye under 158gr +/- bullets for quite a while and in every shape and form.

It is the load, not to be confused with "THE LOAD", that I use for 99.99999% of all of my 38spl loadings. From my 6" M586 I get right at 800fps with it. From a 2" tube it is remarkably less. 700fps or so.

It is as accurate as can be and recoil is very manageable in the bigger gun. I won a bunch of PPC matches with that load as a matter of fact.

Manuals, schmanuals, you don't need any stinking manuals!

 

[walnutred]

Well, I've always heard the reloading was more art than science.

 

[1x2]

walnutred,

I was taught to reload by the resident guru gunsmith/competition winner at our very large club. The 3.5gr of Bullseye with a 158gr SWC in .38 special was his recommendation. That's what we loaded. I used it for several years with outstanding accuracy. It was "punchy" in my 6" bbl. Model 10 as compared to a couple recipes I tried with Unique, but the Unique recipes were certainly not as accurate. I was instructed that one great thing about Bullseye is that the above charge will burn fully in a 2" barrel and should yield ~ 755 fps. Bullesye is a quick burn.

1x2

 

[walnutred]

What OAL are you using? Taper or roll crimp? I loaded up a box to test out in my 10-6.

 

[Ernie L]

3.8gr. of Bullseye as the starting point!!!!!!!
I have a Hornady manual (3rd edition)

while the below scan is of a round point I doubt it would make THAT much of a difference.

 

[BE Mike]

Looks like you need to contact Lyman and Hornady to get an answer. Let us know what they say.

 

[BruceM]

The reason the Bullseye load is the way it is in the Hornady manual is the bullet, not the pressure developed. That bullet is swaged lead and cannot be driven faster than 800fps without severe leading.

Bruce

 

[Ernie L]

Originally posted by FrankD45:
I looked at my Lyman #44 and Hornady #7. The Lyman book has the 158gr cast as you noted with a factory duplication (max) load of 3.5gr Bullseye. Hornady #7 shows a 158gr cast lead bullet with a starting load of 2.8gr and a maximum of 3.7gr of Bullseye. The 158gr jacketed bullet has a starting load of 3.4gr and a maximum of 4.5gr (+P load). I think the data you referenced may have mixed cast loads with jacketed.

I hope that helps,

Frank

After looking at the hornady tables for the 158 gr. jacketed bullet I have to agree with Frank. He seems to have come up with the most plausible explanation.

 

[Kevin G]

Originally posted by walnutred:
Someone whose opinion I respect once told me that the problem with Bullseye is they use powdered graphite to keep the grains of powder from sticking together.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this point. I'm under the impression that the graphite coating on smokeless powder grains in general has something to do w/controlling the burn rate of the powder.
Tks, Kevin

 

[1x2]

What OAL are you using? Taper or roll crimp?

I don't know who you were directing your question to, but- I load EVERYTHING to standard length, in the case of the .38 sp, 1.550". I use a firm roll crimp, again, with EVERYTHING; I was taught to let a little pressure build before she pops loose. Also, with the larger calibers/heavier loads, it prevents the other cartridges from jumping crimp in the chambers. I use the standard Dillon dies or the Lyman carbide 4-die set- depends on which calibers I was loading before I purchased the RL550B

.

1x2

 

[walnutred]

Originally posted by Ernie L:

Frank

After looking at the hornady tables for the 158 gr. jacketed bullet I have to agree with Frank. He seems to have come up with the most plausible explanation.[/QUOTE]

You are both correct. It is the Speer book (11&12) that list BE at 3.8-4.2 for the three lead 158 gn bullets they sell. Right charge, wrong manual. So form three manuals we have three very different powder ranges for what should be similar bullets. I still go back to the gas check changing pressure theory.

 

[S/W - Lifer]

I'm a guy that will load on the conservative side and work my way up if I feel a need. In my loading youth I put together high-end SR-4756 .357 Magnum loads right out of the gate. These were taken straight out of a loading manual. I had to beat the empty cases out of my revolver with a mallot. And I do mean pound them out of the gun.

My goal is safe, reliable, accurate long-term quality performance, not the maximum velocity claimed in a book. Working-up and keeping good loading records are key.

I'm not going to comment on your question as I don't know the answer. I do know, however, that you are a wise man to have asked it.