38 Special Barrel ID and Replacement

[Gabsmith]

Greetings:
I want to restore my grandfathers S&W 38 Special that I got 40 years ago. Grandpa had the barrel cut to 3 inches to turn it into a belly gun. I debated (with myself) whether I wanted to put the correct barrel on it or leave it like grandpa had it. Years ago I came up with a compromise and had a front sight put on so I could actually hit something (that didn't work). I now want to put the correct original barrel on it. My question is what is the original barrel? It is a 38 Special CTG. A hand ejector, with no model number that I can find. It has 5 screws in addition to a strain screw. It has a fixed rear sight. The serial number is S 911100. It has these gorgeous stag grips.
Thanks for your help in advance

 

[cgt4570]

The current barrel is at least 4". I'm sure there's a sticky here somewhere on how to measure a barrel length.
3" would remove the under lug, which is still there.
I might have a spare factory barrel. I'm in the process of moving and all my parts are still at the old house. I'll try to remember to look tomorrow.

 

[Gabsmith]

Thanks much, I will find a barrel here in Northern California when I find the gunsmith to restore it. Did it come with a 5 inch or a 6 inch barrel? Maybe I should have asked in original question if someone can tell me what year and model my S&W is?

 

[ggibson511960]

Just my 2 cents, but I would leave a family heirloom that looks as nice as yours just the way it is. It has grandpa's character. It's a nice example of a hand ejector, but not super rare. Your grandpa's .38 is one of a kind even if you have added a front sight which looks to be very well done.

 

[murphydog]

Welcome!

You have a .38 Military & Police revolver made sometime in 1947. JP@AK is the local expert on these and can probably narrow that down to a month in that year. A similar gun was also named the model 10 starting in about 1958.

The barrel (muzzle to cylinder face) appears to be about 4", a standard length. Based on the location of the rollmark on the right barrel the original barrel length was either 5 or 6". The only way to be certain is to obtain a letter of authenticity, which will also give you its ship (official factory birth) date.

swhistoricalfoundation.com/letter-process/

The front sight seems to be a factory part and correctly positioned (in the single photo), so I am also curious about why it is not working?

 

[StrawHat]

The M&P was available with barrel lengths of 4, 5, 6, 6 1/2" and probably more. Excepting a factory letter, I am not aware of anyway to determine the original length of the barrel on your revolver.

Kevin

 

[steelslaver]

Unless there is something obviously wrong with the barrel or cylinder, one of the best ways to get a handgun to shoot better s to run about 1000 rounds or so through it focusing on the front sight and how it is framed just right with the rear sight.

A longer barrel will not help the guns inherit accuracy very much at all. The operator of a longer barreled revolver will have more sighting radius and be able to see slight aiming errors better

A 2" J frame barreled revolver has a sighting radius of about 3 1/2" a 3" 4 1/2" a 4" K frame like yours about 5 3/4" and a 6" 7 3/4". A 1/16" sighting error on a 4" means a 4.9" miss at 25 yards. on a 6" barrel it woulds be a 3.6" miss. Both cause by human error NOT the gun

If I took a 6" barreled gun fired it in a machine rest and then cut off 2" and re crowned the barrel I would expect the same sized groups from it in machine rest. I fact I recently took an old refinished K frame 38 special and cut the barrel off right in front of the ejector lug and it shoots as well as it did before, I am slightly less able to shoot it as well. But, it is more of a handy dandy that I can give to my MIL and get back the adjustable sight 4" K frame I lent her.

 

[murphydog]

The M&P was available with barrel lengths of 4, 5, 6, 6 1/2" and probably more. Excepting a factory letter, I am not aware of anyway to determine the original length of the barrel on your revolver.

Kevin

If the barrel flat has a matching SN, that makes the two longer barrel length options 5 and 6".

I don't know if the early post-WW II caliber rollmark was in a different position for those two lengths? JP@AK probably does. If they are, with the 6" stamping farther toward the muzzle, that would narrow it down to one length or the other.

 

[Gabsmith]

Thanks
The reason it didn't work is I am terrible shot. A laser sight wouldn't help. I am decent shot with a rifle, just not a handgun, any handgun. Even though I have been show how to improve several times, it doesn't happen. Now my failing eyesight has taken care of it.
The barrel is 3.7 inches long. There was no front sight and the engraving on the barrel was cut off suggesting a shortened barrel when I got it. It sounds like a 5 or 6 inch barrel would work. If I want to know how it was shipped than the letter of authenticity is the way to go. I was thinking there was a standard that all of this particular model was shipped with. Someone would see the serial number and might say this came with a 6 inch barrel for sure. Wishful thinking.

 

[Alk8944]

Greetings:
I want to restore my grandfathers S&W 38 Special that I got 40 years ago. Grandpa had the barrel cut to 3 inches to turn it into a belly gun. I debated (with myself) whether I wanted to put the correct barrel on it or leave it like grandpa had it. Years ago I came up with a compromise and had a front sight put on so I could actually hit something (that didn't work). I now want to put the correct original barrel on it. My question is what is the original barrel? It is a 38 Special CTG. A hand ejector, with no model number that I can find. It has 5 screws in addition to a strain screw. It has a fixed rear sight. The serial number is S 911100. It has these gorgeous stag grips.
Thanks for your help in advance

Gabsmith,

I am going to start at the beginning because you have been given some (But not all) incorrect information by people who mean well but don't know what they are talking about.

First that is a 4" barrel. This is a "nominal" length and could vary by +/- 1/8". You have measured from the front of the frame, revolver barrel s are measured from the front face of the cylinder to the muzzle. This is a common mistake!

The front sight appears to be factory, are you sure is was a replacement? The other point is the barrel lug. If the barrel had been cut to 3" it would be about 1/8" in front of the lug. The lug would not have been removed.

As others have said, a 4" barrel, or even 2", is just as inherently/mechanically accurate as any other length, you will gain nothing unless the barrel you have is damaged internally. You will find you will gain more by shooting the gun as much as you can, concentration on trigger control. Accuracy, or lack of, is mostly the effect the operator has in the equation! Get some coaching from a more experienced shooter too, this will help you the most.

The only way to find out what he original barrel length was is a "factory letter" The current cost is $100, is it worth that much to you to find out if it was a 5" or 6" barrel? 6 1/2" barrels had not been made since around 1910!!! When your gun was made 5" was very popular, I doubt your Grandfather would have had it cut for only one inch!

Barrel markings: All barrel lengths had a serial number on the bottom flat, so that means nothing! The roll marks on the barrel were not always centered on the barrel but often on the barrel lug, so this means nothing either. I own S&Ws that prove this point!

Finally, it was your Grandfather's, and is a family heirloom. Based on personal experience (I am nearly 78) if you alter the gun you will have great regret in the future! You cannot ever go back and make it how he wanted and used it. It won't be his gun anymore.

Short story is you would not gain anything by replacing the barrel, leave it alone and enjoy that you now possess it as your Grandfather used it, and just leave it alone.

 

[Alk8944]

gabsmith,

Read your subsequent posts and have a bit more for you, although the leave it alone recommendation won't change.Can you post another photo that will better show the caliber roll mark? from what I can see, which is very little due to the poor quality of the photo. I would say it is extremely likely that the guns original barrel was 6". 6" will be easier to find than a 5".

here is another matter though, and that will be finish. S&W has used several different bluing processes, as well as polishing standards have changed. To match the existing finish of the gun you will need to find a barrel of the same time frame as your gun. Most barrels you will find will be more highly polished and have a darker color. This will be very obvious and not very pleasing.

Just as an aside, I own a 5" M&P from about 1950. Weeks after I bought it, probably 25 years ago, I noticed the serial numbers didn't match! The barrel and cylinder number were the same but don't match the frame. The frame and yoke match. All I can surmise is someone had two guns and wasn't happy with the barrel lengths for some reason. The serial numbers were quite close so both guns were about the same age. Go Figure!!! Finish does match on all parts.

What I did notice which I had not before are your remarks about not being a very good shot and your failing eyesight.

 

[Gabsmith]

Thanks everyone.
Good advice all around. Saving the old barrel makes sense as I or my son could go back to the original barrel. He and I have talked about this. 6 inch makes sense. The included picture shows how I came up with 3.7 inches even though my calipers show a bit more as it was tough to get the calipers to hold in place. You all have given me the information I need to go forward. I would have never thought of the finish of the new barrel.

 

[biblethumpincop]

Toss one of these period correct sights on it! Also, perhaps the barrel needs recrowned if it was chopped?

Adjustable Revolver Sight - Original Wondersight for S&W | eBay

 

[murphydog]

For what it is worth, the left barrel rollmark is in the same position in photos of a 6" post-war .38 M & P I have found. I was not able to find images of a 5" to compare, however.

As Alk8944 mentioned, a correct era barrel will likely have a better finish match. If you look at the barrel flat (near the extractor rod) of a replacement candidate, a number near the frame SN, or one with an early C prefix number, will probably be close.