.38 special brass for 38 S&W
- Thread starter jacob
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Yes, it is a smaller diameter. 38 S&W isn't just a short 38 Special, it is an entirely different round. 38 Special brass cut down and used in a 38 S&W revolver will swell up and eventually split. Look at the measurements in your reloading manual, you will see the difference.
.38 short and long Colt are the same dia. as .38 Special. .38 S&W and .38 Colt NP is the same dia. Confusing isn't it? Larry
gwpercle
Member
A book that help explains some of the the confusion is Cartridges Of The World. Interesting read with historical facts, some loading data and what cases can be used to substitute for obsolete. It was here I learned that 284 Winchester cases could be resized to 7.5 Swiss.....at the time , 1960's, no boxer primed brass was available for reloading and this information got us shooting our 1911 Schmidt-Rubin's . . 284 Win. was easy to find then.
Gary
Gary
I have done it. Years ago, I had so many 38 Special empty casings that I cut down a box of 50 and reloaded for 38 S&W. The .361 bullet showed a significant bulge when seated. Upon shooting, there was some blowback and the gun got dirty really fast. I reloaded that brass a half-dozen times and never had a split case, but I only load for 500 - 600 fps. After the first couple of reloads, the brass was stretched enough to eliminate blow-back.
I would not use 38 Special dies to load 38 S&W, since my findiings were that accuracy suffers. 38 Special dies will basically resize your lead bullets to .357 or less.
I would not use 38 Special dies to load 38 S&W, since my findiings were that accuracy suffers. 38 Special dies will basically resize your lead bullets to .357 or less.
cutting down 38 special brass might work as others have mentioned. I have always just bought loaded rounds and as I shot those off you can reload that brass. Ammoseek has a number of vendors that have it priced around @$22 per box.
ironhead7544
Member
I was given a Webley in 38/200. Had some brass but no dies or proper sized bullets. Used a 38 Special set and some 187 gr WFPGC bullets at .358 diameter. Used the start load of Unique for 200 gr bullets and moved up .1 gr at a time until it hit center at 7 yards. Dont go over max of course. The brass held up just fine, no splits. Probably due to the low pressure.
I would only use 38 Special cut down brass if I had no source for the 38 S&W brass. Might work OK with the low 38 S&W pressures.
I would only use 38 Special cut down brass if I had no source for the 38 S&W brass. Might work OK with the low 38 S&W pressures.
I trim 9mm Para cases (9x19, bore.355) down to use in 9mm Makarov (9x18, bore.365). They do look weird when first loaded but once fired and formed are fine. No issue with splits or cracks, and that's with a full .01 difference in bore sizes.
I don't see why .38 Spec cases wouldn't work in the .38 S&W after trimming and run through 38 S&W dies. It's tedious work though, especiqally if commercial cases can be obtained.
I don't see why .38 Spec cases wouldn't work in the .38 S&W after trimming and run through 38 S&W dies. It's tedious work though, especiqally if commercial cases can be obtained.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
It will depend on your revolver more than anything else. As others have pointed out, the .38 Special was developed from the earlier .38 Colt (short and long) while the .38 S&W was different in all dimensions. Differences are not huge, but they are measurable and significant.
We are talking about 1880's and 1890's designs and manufacturing technologies. A very wide variety of .38 S&W handguns were produced by many manufacturers, and dimensions were all over the charts. What works in one may not work in another, and some may not even work properly with factory-spec ammo.
If I were taking on a project like this (for reasons of necessity only) I would start with a box of 50 .38 Special fired cases, trim to length & chamfer, then load with modest charges and fairly heavy lead bullets, then see if those will shoot in my revolver. If so, the fire-formed cases could be reloaded in .38 S&W dies and should be usable for multiple reloads. If not I would conclude that my revolver was different enough dimensionally to preclude any further use of the altered .38 Special cases.
We are talking about 1880's and 1890's designs and manufacturing technologies. A very wide variety of .38 S&W handguns were produced by many manufacturers, and dimensions were all over the charts. What works in one may not work in another, and some may not even work properly with factory-spec ammo.
If I were taking on a project like this (for reasons of necessity only) I would start with a box of 50 .38 Special fired cases, trim to length & chamfer, then load with modest charges and fairly heavy lead bullets, then see if those will shoot in my revolver. If so, the fire-formed cases could be reloaded in .38 S&W dies and should be usable for multiple reloads. If not I would conclude that my revolver was different enough dimensionally to preclude any further use of the altered .38 Special cases.
Model19man
SWCA Member
38 Colt New Police is exactly the same diameter as 38 Smith and Wesson - it is the same round. Either of them are larger diameter than 38 S&W Special or either the Colt 38 Long or Short. You cannot make 38 S&W from any of the smaller diameter rounds.
My post is stating the same info as your post. My post is 2 sentences. Note the period after Special. .38 S&W starts a new sentence. I admit your wording is more clear than mine and I should have put more thought in my post. Larry
Are you asking.....
Are you asking if .38 Special and .38 S&W are interchangeable at all? They are not. Some of the posts in this thread indicate that .38 Special brass can be repurposed (with some difficulty and mismatch) for reloading in .38 S&W but the best solution seems to be either buying .38 S&W ammo and saving the brass, or getting new brass from a supplier like Starline.
Are you asking if .38 Special and .38 S&W are interchangeable at all? They are not. Some of the posts in this thread indicate that .38 Special brass can be repurposed (with some difficulty and mismatch) for reloading in .38 S&W but the best solution seems to be either buying .38 S&W ammo and saving the brass, or getting new brass from a supplier like Starline.
Alk8944
US Veteran
There is absolutely no reason that .38 Special can't be shortened to .38 S&W length and used successfully. Anyone who thinks the nominal .0065" difference in outside case diameter is significant is simply not thinking logically!!!!!
The significant measurement is case wall thickness at the mouth of the case. For .38 Special this is .012"+/-. For .38 S&W it is .013" +/-, a difference of only .001" on average. Hardly a significant amount.
Will .38 Spl. cases split because of this small difference? Maybe, but new factory .38 Spl. will sometimes split on first firing in a .38 Spl. chamber too! When this happens throw that case away.
Is shortening .38 Spl. to .38 S&W length practical? Probably not for several reasons, since new .38 S&W brass is readily available, but anyone who says it cannot be done simply isn't thinking! As long as .38 S&W dies are used for loading there will be no issues.
This is just the same as people who believe .361" bullets must be used in .38 S&W, or can't be used in .38 Special. Lead alloy bullets are very adaptable to different barrel dimensions!
The significant measurement is case wall thickness at the mouth of the case. For .38 Special this is .012"+/-. For .38 S&W it is .013" +/-, a difference of only .001" on average. Hardly a significant amount.
Will .38 Spl. cases split because of this small difference? Maybe, but new factory .38 Spl. will sometimes split on first firing in a .38 Spl. chamber too! When this happens throw that case away.
Is shortening .38 Spl. to .38 S&W length practical? Probably not for several reasons, since new .38 S&W brass is readily available, but anyone who says it cannot be done simply isn't thinking! As long as .38 S&W dies are used for loading there will be no issues.
This is just the same as people who believe .361" bullets must be used in .38 S&W, or can't be used in .38 Special. Lead alloy bullets are very adaptable to different barrel dimensions!
Model19man
SWCA Member
Those of us who have tried this know that 38SPL brass splits often after a single use. The diameter does matter. A great way to make single use cartridges.
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I trim 9mm down for the Makarov too, but the difference here is the Luger case, being tapered, is closer to the correct diameter at its base than the .38 Special is for the .38 S&W. This seals up the breach better. It only has to fireform the forward portion of the luger case. Since the breech is sealed better it will fireform easily. The Makarov is basically a straight wall 9mm Luger.
If I recall correctly, you can make a rimmed case for 9mm revolvers from .38 S&W. Which was the problem with the short-lived 9mm Federal. It would chamber in .38 S&W revolvers but was way over pressure.
If there was enough room for a half-moon clip on your revolver you might be able to go that way. The 9mm case is shorter, but if you could get it to headspace you could still make that work.
I made rimmed .380 cases out of .38 Special cases for a little Taurus .380 revolver. But the .380 is a straight wall case the same diameter as the mouth of the 9mm. They head spaced because Taurus cut the cylinders the same as their .38 Special guns.
DWalt
Member
1. Absolutely, .38 Special cases can be shortened for use in a .38 S&W revolver. I have done it, but it is a lot of work.
2. .38 Short Colt ammunition and cases can be used in .38 S&W chambers. I have done that also. .38 SC is essentially a shorter cased .38 Special. Not too easy to find today, but it can be found. And of course, .38 SC works fine in .38 Special and .357 revolvers. The .38 SC deserves to be better known than it is, a useful cartridge, especially in .38 Special snubbies. They extract better.
After the first firing the cases will be fire formed to .38 S&W dimensions and can be reloaded using .38 S&W or .38 Super dies. I use the latter.
2. .38 Short Colt ammunition and cases can be used in .38 S&W chambers. I have done that also. .38 SC is essentially a shorter cased .38 Special. Not too easy to find today, but it can be found. And of course, .38 SC works fine in .38 Special and .357 revolvers. The .38 SC deserves to be better known than it is, a useful cartridge, especially in .38 Special snubbies. They extract better.
After the first firing the cases will be fire formed to .38 S&W dimensions and can be reloaded using .38 S&W or .38 Super dies. I use the latter.
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I agree with Alk8944.
I know for a fact that new Remington 38 S&W cartridges will chamber in 38 Spcl and 357 chambers. Tried it and it worked in all of my K and N frame revolvers. Out of 6 different revolvers, ranging in age from the early 1920s to the 1980s, only one chamber was "snug". But all accepted the new Remington 38 S&W ammo. None of this apparently undersized 38 S&W ammo split when fired in a variety of my 38 S&W revolvers, whether a top break or HE. However, this was not true with vintage S&W ammo. They would often not chamber in the 38/357 cylinders.
Can you make usable 38 S&W cases out of 38 Special... yes. Will all of them split... no. And annealing modified cases beforehand will reduce the rate of failure considerably.
I've seen 50-70 cases made from 348 Winchester, a common thing done before 50-70 became available again.They showed a much larger bulge at the base after forming than possible with a 38 Special case would if converted to 38 S&W. Yet those modified 348 cases worked reliably without splitting. Annealing is key step in any case forming.
But, of course, all this is a moot point as 38 S&W isn't impossible to find.
John
I know for a fact that new Remington 38 S&W cartridges will chamber in 38 Spcl and 357 chambers. Tried it and it worked in all of my K and N frame revolvers. Out of 6 different revolvers, ranging in age from the early 1920s to the 1980s, only one chamber was "snug". But all accepted the new Remington 38 S&W ammo. None of this apparently undersized 38 S&W ammo split when fired in a variety of my 38 S&W revolvers, whether a top break or HE. However, this was not true with vintage S&W ammo. They would often not chamber in the 38/357 cylinders.
Can you make usable 38 S&W cases out of 38 Special... yes. Will all of them split... no. And annealing modified cases beforehand will reduce the rate of failure considerably.
I've seen 50-70 cases made from 348 Winchester, a common thing done before 50-70 became available again.They showed a much larger bulge at the base after forming than possible with a 38 Special case would if converted to 38 S&W. Yet those modified 348 cases worked reliably without splitting. Annealing is key step in any case forming.
But, of course, all this is a moot point as 38 S&W isn't impossible to find.
John
Have you shot this caliber? No one said that 38 Special brass cannot be used, but the first couple of times they are shot issues do arise. First, as I stated before is that shooting them the first couple times makes your revolver incredibly dirty from blow-back. Second, yes some brass will split, but in the past I had so much that it did not matter much. Third, the first couple loadings expanded the brass, but also compressed the lead bullet, making the round less accurate. Last, DO NOT USE 38 Special dies as they can reduce your lead to .357, which will basically allow the bullet to rattle down the barrel of a 38 S&W. Do it right - buy both 38 S&W brass and dies.
