.38 Special Defense Load

[roaddog28]

Greetings, All,

This has been an interesting, and informative thread, and I thank one and all who contributed to it.

All other things aside, I like carrying 158gr bullets in my .38 Special, and .357 ammunition. I've always found that every .38 snub revolver I've found, and most of my .357's, shoot almost exactly to POA with that bullet weight. Since I believe that shot placement is the most important factor in stopping an aggressor, beyond all other considerations, I have chosen the loads that give that POA accuracy. I also hope and pray that, IF the time ever comes when I need to actually shoot someone in self-defense (which I TRULY hope never happens!), shot placement with a good 158 grain slug will carry the day and save my life or the lives others!!

All of my S&W, and many of my Ruger firearms in these calibers simply seem to thrive and shoot their best with 158 grain bullets. So, for me anyway, I'll not be switching to anything else, as everything else I've tried does not shoot as well as my old tried and true favorites. I have settled on WW 158gr lead SWCHP +P ammunition, or the non +P version of that same setup. Both shoot very well in my guns, and both have proved satisfactory enough to keep me using them. For what it's worth..... Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Doc I agree with you. My model 10 4 inch is loaded with LSWCHP 158 gr +P either by Buffalo Bore or Remington. In my 357 magnums I use 158 gr in either Federal or Black Hills. I have had good luck with CCI Blazer 158 gr hollow points. This is a good practice and is easy on my four K frame magnums. I mentioned in my post above about the 125 gr nyclad by Federal. The only time I have ever used this round is in my model 36. Snubs are so hard to control and hit a target with accuracy that the only round I have any luck with is the nyclad. The information in this thread is informative.
Regards,
Howard

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

CDawg
I will enlighten you 2 center mass hits didn't put my offender down.
They didn't open up like everyone thinks a handgun bullet has to.
they dumped all their energy to early and didn't get to the vitals and knuckle head lived to stand trial.

End of story can't go into any more detail.

according to the ME (Medical Examiner) I would have been better off with a heavy bullet.

That is why I have fallen into the full wadcutter camp and I currently carry
Jim Cirillo's "Safe Stop" round or Buffalo boars full wadcutter load.

Why just two shots? If you're justified in shooting in the first place then you're justified in dumping a whole cylinder-full or mag-full of rounds into the attacker until he is incapacitated.

The problem with listening to the opinions of a Coroner/ME is that they see bullets post-mortem. They have no idea what those bullets are or are not doing during the nanoseconds that those bullets are impacting their target and what that target is or is not doing seconds and minutes after those bullets impact.

There are many cases of people taking multiple hits from big heavy handgun bullets and even multiple hits from rifle rounds and not being immediately incapacitated. Switching to a heavier full caliber meplat bullet is no guarantee that they work any better than modern designed expanding SD loads.

As you noted, bullets recovered from human beings don't necessarily equate to picture-perfect expanded bullets pulled from ballistic gel. This is why I don't place any faith in either the FBI ballistics protocol nor what the defunct IWBA tells people to use. Presently all my carry guns are in 9MM and I use a load that has over four decades of street proven effectiveness; a load that both the FBI and IWBA people refuse to even acknowledge as being a viable SD and LE load.

 

[BreakerDan]

I tried Nyclad standard pressure 125s into milk jugs
from a 4" K38....I would never carry them for anything
other than small game. The Nyclads consistently exploded
one milk jug and the bullet would be lying on the ground
behind. One milk jug is not much water to go through. Expansion
was good.

Avoid the standard pressure Hydra Shok 110 like the plague.

Per the OP's question:
Standard Pressure go with 148 wadcutters or 158 SWC.
+P: your gun will handle a few of these go with the FBI load.

 

[pete950]

Why just two shots? If you're justified in shooting in the first place then you're justified in dumping a whole cylinder-full or mag-full of rounds into the attacker until he is incapacitated.

The problem with listening to the opinions of a Coroner/ME is that they see bullets post-mortem. They have no idea what those bullets are or are not doing during the nanoseconds that those bullets are impacting their target and what that target is or is not doing seconds and minutes after those bullets impact.

There are many cases of people taking multiple hits from big heavy handgun bullets and even multiple hits from rifle rounds and not being immediately incapacitated. Switching to a heavier full caliber meplat bullet is no guarantee that they work any better than modern designed expanding SD loads.

As you noted, bullets recovered from human beings don't necessarily equate to picture-perfect expanded bullets pulled from ballistic gel. This is why I don't place any faith in either the FBI ballistics protocol nor what the defunct IWBA tells people to use. Presently all my carry guns are in 9MM and I use a load that has over four decades of street proven effectiveness; a load that both the FBI and IWBA people refuse to even acknowledge as being a viable SD and LE load.

And what would that load be?
By any chance the federal 115 bl!

 

[photoman]

Presently all my carry guns are in 9MM and I use a load that has over four decades of street proven effectiveness; a load that both the FBI and IWBA people refuse to even acknowledge as being a viable SD and LE load.

I'm sure happy with the Federal 9BPLE. Lots of real life examples of success with the load and very inexpesive compared to some of the other top line ammo.

 

[russp1]

I just bought some Hornady Critical Defense 110gr .38 loads for the wife's model 36. Any info on this load?

After a lot of reading online and in a few books, this is what I went with for my 442 and the wife's 642. We both shoot accurately with it, the recoil is very manageable and the ballistics for them look good.

 

[photoman]

After a lot of reading online and in a few books, this is what I went with for my 442 and the wife's 642. We both shoot accurately with it, the recoil is very manageable and the ballistics for them look good.

FYI...

FirearmsTactical.com: TacticalBriefs, April 2006

 

[CTG_COLLECTOR]

I'm sure happy with the Federal 9BPLE. Lots of real life examples of success with the load and very inexpesive compared to some of the other top line ammo.

BINGO! We have a winner!

 

[pete950]

BINGO! We have a winner!

Well we agree on this one!!!!!

Pete

 

[russp1]

FYI...

FirearmsTactical.com: TacticalBriefs, April 2006

Wouldn't this be true of any hollow point that is meant to expand on impact? If it could penetrate glass or sheet metal without expanding and stopping, it seems it would penetrate a person without any expansion also and just go through.