.38 Special "FBI" load

[jondar]

I read about these either here or on another forum. Seemed it was a 158 gr LSWC bullet at around 950-1000 fps. Does anyone have the specs on this. Would be using them out of a 2" barrel/ Thanks/

 

[jondar]

I read about these either here or on another forum. Seemed it was a 158 gr LSWC bullet at around 950-1000 fps. Does anyone have the specs on this. Would be using them out of a 2" barrel/ Thanks/

 

[shovelwrench]

Search the reloading section for "the load"

In one thread there is a pic posted of the load data for SR ?.

Thats what your lookin for.

 

[shovelwrench]

here you go.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/e...904/m/1511060143/p/2

Pics a little hard to read.

 

[shovelwrench]

This is a little better pic.

http://www.bbhfarm.com/gallery/album10/aal

 

[jondar]

Shovelwrench, thanks for that info. I'm not familiar with that powder they are using, I use Unique for heavier loads.

 

[shovelwrench]

Alliants listings. Looks like Unique will get you there, probably not from a snubby though. Most full power stuff I load I use Power Pistol, a little "flashy" but a great performer.

NOTICE, these are +P

http://www.alliantpowder.com/r...ellid=27&bulletid=30

 

[Joel C]

I've duplicated this load using Unique and a Lyman(357466)165gr SWC sized at .358 and air cooled. My alloy is quite soft, about 7 BHN, but hard enough to prevent leading. I'm currently pushing the pill at just under 1K fps (989 ave.)from a M64 with a 3" tube, which gives me over 350+ ft/lbs of KE. I haven't observed any pressure signs and max. fps hasn't been reached, but why bother. It's stout enough as it is.

 

[Win]

It seems unlikely you will get 900 ~ 1000 fps from a .38 with a snub barrel...without really putting a big strain on the gun. If it is a snub .357 that you will be running hot .38s through, that's a different matter, but I wouldn't try to get that much speed out of an old Chief's Special chambered in .38.

5 grains of Unique with 158 tips is about as far as you want to go in a small J frame for any extended shooting. Anything hotter will risk too much wear on the gun ...after just a few shoots.

 

[Joel C]

I agree with Win. The load I spoke of earlier is shot sparingly and carried in my off duty M64. For range work, I prefer 3.8gr of Bullseye over the same pill (lyman 357466 165gr. SWC.)

 

[jondar]

My old Lyman manual shows 6.4 grains of Unique or 13.5 gr #2400 will get you up into these velocities but there is a "strong caution" these loads are to be used in Heavy Frame guns only. But like you say I'd never get that from a 2" barrell and wouldn't try those loads in my Pre-War S&W M&P.

 

[Erich]

Shovelwrench, THE LOAD was never an FBI Load duplicate. It's much more powerful than that, and is above +P pressures.

For the FBI Load, it's easily duplicated with Unique. You don't need anywhere near the amount that Jondar sets out in his post.

 

[epj]

At what point would it qualify as a .38-44 load?

 

[Paul5388]

I've shot 5.5 gr of Unique with a 158 gr LSWC out of a 4" M&P without any problems. I averaged about 970 fps MV.

The same load out of a 2" will get pretty close to 900 fps. That's probably pretty close to what 10.0 gr of AL-8 would do out of the Chief's Special I used in 1968.

Elmer Keith said .38-44 loads were OK in a Chief's Special.

The little Chiefs Special has the new short action and the Centennial has an entirely new coil spring action, entirely double action. The Chiefs Special can be cocked and fired single action and is very accurate for its extremely light weight. Both arms are five-shot and both chambered for the .38 Special cartridge and while S. & W. does not advertise the fact, both guns will perfectly handle the .38/44 and other high speed ammunition in .38 Special. We recently made a test run of 500 rounds of this high speed ammunition through each of these guns with no ill effects we could detect either visually or by careful measurement of cylinders and rear ends of the barrels. "Sixguns", page 45

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Originally posted by epj:
At what point would it qualify as a .38-44 load?

Keith's 38/44 handload was the following

38 special case
lyman 358429 swc (his design)...crimped in the crimp groove
13.5 gr of 2400

 

[Paul5388]

38 special case
lyman 358429 swc (his design)...crimped in the crimp groove
13.5 gr of 2400

I shot 13.5 gr of Alliant 2400 with a 358429 in .38 brass out of a M28-2 and got 1270 fps MV. That's a little higher than .38-44 should be. Dropping back to 12.5 gr of 2400 would probably be closer.

 

[canoe on the yukon]

As I stated....that was Keith's recommended handload.

 

[Steve C]

I've shot 5.5 gr of Unique with a 158 gr LSWC out of a 4" M&P without any problems. I averaged about 970 fps MV.

I used to use the same load till I got a chrono. Found it a bit warm so I dropped down to 5.2grs for a closer match to factory +P ballistics.

The Super Vel 158gr Lead bullet at 1,090 fps ballistics as published in my 1970 Gun Digest was from a 6" barrel. Most people who look at old vrs new ballistic charts forget to factor in barrel length. Older data was usually taken from 6" or 8" barrels, often solid breach test barrels so velocities where higher than the current data taken from 4" vented test barrels that simulate ballistics from a typical revolver with a cylinder gap.

Current Winchester published ballistics for the 158gr LSWCHP from a 4" is 890 fps, a 2" will get around 790 fps from a 6" it should be 1K fps +/-. You can duplicate this with 4.7gr of W231 in Winchester case lit by a WSP primer using a Speer LSCWHP.

Shoot these from a +P rated pistol only or a K frame snub, sparingly in a Colt D frame. They likely stretch the frame on a pre 1980's lightweight alluminum alloy model.

 

[Paul5388]

This what Elmer actually said.

Here's some older data (1970) including barrel length.

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Paul,

You seem to be contradicting me but you're actually backing me up.The middle paragraph of the 38 special section is what refers to the 38/44 (N frame S&W).13.5 gr of 2400.

I didn't suggest any load.I just stated what his suggested load was.I was responding to a query about the 38/44.

The Speer#8 manual does not give 38/44 data per se.They are rather heavy loads that were given for the k frame Smith.The factory load data that you show is not of 38/44 specs either.

And yes,the middle paragraph is ACTUALLY what he said.