38 Special FTF

[kmca1]

I apologize for this long post, but...

I usually load 158 grain Bear Creek round nose bullets over Bullseye powder, Winchester primers and mixed brass. Last week I ran low of those bullets, so I picked up some 158 grain, Berry''s plated round nose bullets.

I loaded the Bear Creek bullets on a Dillon 550, ran low, so I switched to the Berry's bullets...same charge, same lot of primers, same OAL, same brass. I loaded a couple dozen to try, then switched back to Bear Creek bullets.

Yesterday, I started with the Bear Creek bullets, no problems. Next stage, I used the Berry's bullet reloads. 11 out of 12 no fires. I switched back to the Bear Creek reloads and no problems. The Berry's reloads primer strikes looked a little light. I know, Federal primers are the ones to use, but these days, they're pretty hard to get. Even so, all the reloads (same primers) with Bear Creek bullets worked.

My gun is a Model 19 (magnum) so I don't believe OAL would be a problem.

I talked to several other shooters and nobody could come up with a reason for the FTF.

I'm soooooo confused.

Thanks

 

[kenjen]

first, the bullet will not have any thing to do with them not firing. either your primers are not seated or your strane screw has come loose, (the screw on the gripe frame)

 

[shovelwrench]

Would they fire the second time? Could be high primers caused by the different bullets making the press act differently....

 

[kmca1]

I figured the bullet has nothing to do with the FTF, but that's the only thing that changed.

No, they didn't fire after the second strike.

Those were loaded between batches of Bear Creek bullets. Nothing was changed on the loader or the gun. On the stage where they Berry's bullets wouldn't fire, I switched to the Bear Creek and those all fired.

 

[Rule3]

How can a bullet have anything to do with a primer or how it is seated? Unless Dillon presses do something I do not know about and the primer seating is somehow related to bullet seating???

 

[FloridaFlier]

FTF means the primers did not ignite. On my press (Dillon 550), the primers are seated long before the bullets come near the cases. I can't see how changing the bullets could cause the primers to fail, at least not on rimmed cartridges. Whole 'nother story on auto cartridges, where different bullets might cause a different seating depth, because they are head-spaced.
While I don't believe in coincidence, something else has ALSO changed when you switched bullets. Your problem is at the bottom of the cartridge, not the top.

 

[shovelwrench]

How can a bullet have anything to do with a primer or how it is seated? Unless Dillon presses do something I do not know about and the primer seating is somehow related to bullet seating???

Beats me, just a thought. I know that a heavy crimp and a bullet change can affect where the die will stop. If its a progressive, then that die will also cause the primer seating to fall short also.

Other then something like that, there's no reason for bullet to affect primer ignition....

 

[blujax01]

Beats me, just a thought. I know that a heavy crimp and a bullet change can affect where the die will stop. If its a progressive, then that die will also cause the primer seating to fall short also.

Other then something like that, there's no reason for bullet to affect primer ignition....

Sorry Shovelwrench, regardless of the die setting the press cycles exactly the same.

 

[mikld]

Pull the bullets from a couple of those that failed. Look at the primers from inside. Put one in your gun and see if you can fire it. Mebbe a powder problem. Possibly a foopah during the change over?

 

[BLUEDOT37]

That is odd... the coincidence is hard to figure why.

Maybe when you seated & crimped the Berry's some " berry juice" contaminated the primers.

 

[Rule3]

I figured the bullet has nothing to do with the FTF, but that's the only thing that changed.

No, they didn't fire after the second strike.

Those were loaded between batches of Bear Creek bullets. Nothing was changed on the loader or the gun. On the stage where they Berry's bullets wouldn't fire, I switched to the Bear Creek and those all fired.

If they did not fire on the second strike then you either have some bad primers or they got contaminated some how, The bullets and or powder have nothing to do with it. And it is not a headspace issue in a revolver.

So without being there it is all a WAG as I have no idea.

I would start wearing a tin foil hat.

 

[kmca1]

I switched bullets when I was about half way through the primers already in the press. Powder wasn't touched. I pulled the bullets on the cartridges that didn't fire, pulled out the primers, didn't see anything unusual.

I've screwed up before, but this one really has me stumped. Anyhow, I shortened the OAL and increased the crimp a little bit. I'll try those this weekend to see if it makes a difference.

This one really has me stumped

 

[wiley]

This is just a SWAG, but if you loaded 5 Bear Creek and 1 Berry so that the 5 BC rounds fired first, then measured the OAL of the Berry round, you may see that it has changed from the original OAL. If the crimp on the Berry is not holding, the resistance to the FP strike is reduced, perhaps...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I've screwed up before, but this one really has me stumped. Anyhow, I shortened the OAL and increased the crimp a little bit. I'll try those this weekend to see if it makes a difference.

This one really has me stumped

What does shortening the OAL and changing the crimp have to do with primers not firing? If you said they fired but did not ignite the powder maybe but you said the primers did not fire...???

 

[kmca1]

What does shortening the OAL and changing the crimp have to do with primers not firing? If you said they fired but did not ignite the powder maybe but you said the primers did not fire...???

I don't think it has anything to do with something fired out of a revolver, but I can't think of anything else to do, except pull the bullets and see if I can find more Bear Creek bullets and they're pretty rare around here. A friend even stopped by his place yesterday and all he had on hand was 125 grain 9mm truncated cone bullets. Last I heard he's several million bullets behind.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I know you're frustrated but you keep talking about the bullets which can not effect the primers. There is no reason in the world why a Berry's bullet would cause a primer not to fire or for a Bear Creek bullet to aid a primer in firing.

Stop concentrating on the bullet and look elsewhere.

 

[YARDDOG]

"Stop concentrating on the bullet and look elsewhere."

That's some good advice,,Start pulling you'll find it ; )
Y/D

 

[Rule3]

We can all sit around guessing but never figure out the reason as there is clearly something missing from the explanation.

For that matter post #10 is as good as any.

 

[dg101win]

I also use a Dillon 550 and have changed bullets during a run of 38's as well as 44's. Never had a problem even after adjusting seating depth.
Priming happens on station 1-bullet seating is station 3.

 

[Fkimble]

Pull a couple of those FTF rounds, if the crimp is heavy you may just find a fired primer and smokey base on the bullet. Because the powder was missing. Does the gun have any endshake? And double check the stain screw on the front of the grip under the gripes, it must be tight. No need to load powder or bullets to test. Just resize, primer and load and test fire.

 

[kmca1]

Pulled some bullets, powder was good. No endshake and the strain screw is almost all the way down. It fires cartridges with BC bullets every time, never fires with Berry's, so I sort of ruled out the strain screw.

If I'm missing something in my explaination, I can't figure what it could be.

Anyway, I made 6 loads with BC bullets and 6 with Berry bullets, alternating which bullets are used. I hand seated the primers then ran it through the press. I did shorten the Berry bullet cartridges because they were .03 longer than BC. I can't see where it would make a difference, but at this point, I'll try almost anything.

Don't think I missed anything in my explanation, but if I did, sorry.

 

[moxie]

Somehow the primers got dudded. Keep looking and you'll find out what happened. Has nothing to do with the bullets. Did something get spilled?

 

[SMSgt]

Give all your Berry bullets to someone who reloads as it seems you are not going to accept that the problem is not the bullets.

 

[FishingPilot]

Are you sure you replaced the primers? with un-fired primers? The only items that have anything to do with PRIMERS firing are PRIMERS and FIRING PINS (unless the cylinder is worn and the cases are moving up in the chamber).

 

[kmca1]

Just a quick update.
The shortened cartridges all fired. I shortened some of the batch that didn't work, that's the only thing I did and they fired. I don't know what difference that could make, but I'm not going to argue with success.

Thanks for all the help

 

[Rule3]

Just a quick update.
The shortened cartridges all fired. I shortened some of the batch that didn't work, that's the only thing I did and they fired. I don't know what difference that could make, but I'm not going to argue with success.

Thanks for all the help

I have some "prime" Florida land for sale, a real bargain, send me a PM and we can discuss details. Great for a retirement planning.

 

[gwpercle]

This sort of thing is what gives reloaders gray hair. Theoretically, seating the bullet .03 inch deeper in the case should have had no affect whatsoever on the loaded round firing or not firing. But it did...theory ain't allways what reality is. The reality of this situation is .03 seating depth can make a big difference...I just don't know why. The only thing I can guess is the bullet was not letting the rim fully rest against the cylinder...any othe theories ?
Surprisingly in the first post , he states" my gun is a model 19, magnum, so I don't believe OAL would be a problem " turns out that was the problem. He didn't state which cases he was loading, I assumed 38 special, ...but it looks like he may have been loading 357 mag. brass. Why else would
.03 in. made a difference.
Gary

 

[BLUEDOT37]

This sort of thing is what gives reloaders gray hair. Theoretically, seating the bullet .03 inch deeper in the case should have had no affect whatsoever on the loaded round firing or not firing. But it did...theory ain't allways what reality is. The reality of this situation is .03 seating depth can make a big difference...I just don't know why. The only thing I can guess is the bullet was not letting the rim fully rest against the cylinder...any othe theories ?
Surprisingly in the first post , he states" my gun is a model 19, magnum, so I don't believe OAL would be a problem " turns out that was the problem. He didn't state which cases he was loading, I assumed 38 special, ...but it looks like he may have been loading 357 mag. brass. Why else would .03 in. made a difference.
Gary

If I understand his previous post (below), he said he hand seated the primers this time, which means the original primers weren't used when he did the redo, & they worked okay. Primer issues would seem more likely the cause than OAL, in a revolver, but he's in a better position to tell than us.

K.

Anyway, I made 6 loads with BC bullets and 6 with Berry bullets, alternating which bullets are used. I hand seated the primers then ran it through the press. I did shorten the Berry bullet cartridges because they were .03 longer than BC. I can't see where it would make a difference, but at this point, I'll try almost anything.

 

[kmca1]

I reloaded 12 with new primers (from the same box/lot), the others I just shortened the existing cartridge.
Thanks again.