38 Special SD ammo

[Drm50]

This here 200gr, lead bullet factory load is not going to turn the bad guy upside down and slam him into opposite wall. I think it will give good results out of short barrels. One or two of these in
bad guys pelt is going to make him extremely sick. You can tell they got a little torque when launched out of a M36 snubby. They are very accurate out of 14s. Now saving them for the CCW guns.
Makes more sense to me than +P or better in short barrel guns.

 

[IAM Rand]

My main concern with those would not be what it does to the recipient of the initial greeting but, who would be standing behind them. There is a reason that Law Enforcement doesn't use stuff like that. They tend to go through the intended target and keep on going.

Interesting though, be interesting what the Chrono at.

 

[1sailor]

With a 200 grain bullet out of a .38 Special I would be more concerned that the bad guy might be able to outrun it. Seriously though, it would be interesting to see what they chrono at. May be going slow enough that over penetration wouldn't be an issue. I would have thought they'd have opted for a heavy SWC rather than a round nose although OAL might have been an issue.

 

[ruger 22]

That is the old Super Police load of the 60's and 70's. Velocity was not much more than 700 fps out of a 4". I used to carry those in my backup model 36. My experience has been that they do not over penetrate.

 

[rockquarry]

That is the old Super Police load of the 60's and 70's. Velocity was not much more than 700 fps out of a 4". I used to carry those in my backup model 36. My experience has been that they do not over penetrate.

Too much bullet for the .38 Special. From a snubnose gun, you'd be doing good to get 625-650 fps. Be careful what you shoot at with these, they could bounce right back. Much better to use the bullet weight the cartridge was designed for.

 

[stansdds]

Personally, I think there are better options for many calibers now that we are well into the 21st century.

 

[nra jim]

I have been running 158gr FTX in my granddaughters 4" 38sp and no worries of over penetration with excellent results.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[LoboGunLeather]

The old 200-grain Super Police load had a pretty good reputation back in the 1950s and 1960s. Very blunt profile round nose at low velocity, reportedly hit like a hammer.

The British service load of .38-200 was a .38 S&W case with 200-grain round nose, probably even lower velocity than the .38 Special allows, and it had a good reputation as a man-stopper. Later replaced with a 178-grain round nose jacketed bullet as standard issue which also performed well in combat.

OP seems confident with this combination; no reason why he shouldn't use it.

 

[ispcapt]

Too much bullet for the .38 Special. From a snubnose gun, you'd be doing good to get 625-650 fps. Be careful what you shoot at with these, they could bounce right back. Much better to use the bullet weight the cartridge was designed for.

I don't know about that particular load that's pictured as it's more current than what we tried. A number of years ago we ran some of the old W-W Lubaloy 200 gr over a chrono out of a 2" Mod 36. We never got any velocities over 600 fps. They were all in the 550 to 590 fps range. I suppose another 2" gun might have gotten us some over 600 fps, or less than 550.
We shot a few at a door of an early 1960s car. Can't remember the make. None penetrated the outside of the door. Just made a dent.
I read somewhere and can't vouch for the accuracy of the report but it said the effectiveness of the 200 gr was due to it quickly tumbling whenever it hit anything. If true then the length of the bullet would be wider than an expanded out of a 2", altho still traveling at the upper 500 fps speed.
That longer heavier bullet looked good but it was nothing I really wanted to carry.

 

[rockquarry]

I don't know about that particular load that's pictured as it's more current than what we tried. A number of years ago we ran some of the old W-W Lubaloy 200 gr over a chrono out of a 2" Mod 36. We never got any velocities over 600 fps. They were all in the 550 to 590 fps range. I suppose another 2" gun might have gotten us some over 600 fps, or less than 550.
We shot a few at a door of an early 1960s car. Can't remember the make. None penetrated the outside of the door. Just made a dent.
I read somewhere and can't vouch for the accuracy of the report but it said the effectiveness of the 200 gr was due to it quickly tumbling whenever it hit anything. If true then the length of the bullet would be wider than an expanded out of a 2", altho still traveling at the upper 500 fps speed.
That longer heavier bullet looked good but it was nothing I really wanted to carry.

Yes, poor choice for most any use, but this loading apparently has some strange nostalgic or sentimental value to some folks. However, people can choose for themselves.

There was a reason that a bullet weight of 158 grs. was chosen as standard for the .38 Special. Perhaps it was because that was the heaviest bullet weight that could be given a decent velocity for most uses.

 

[chief38]

Back in the day before hollow points were popular, it was a viable round because of its mass. IMHO there are much better rounds today.

When I carried a Chief's Special for SD I used primarily Buffalo Bore 158 grain +P LSWCHP-GC. Out of the 2" bbl. it did 1,025 fps (checked personally many times). IMHO it is the best you can get out of a 2" snubby! Second best was the Speer 135 grain +P GDHP. The velocity was much slower and the energy was also less, but it had a good street record and had way less recoil for those who could not handle the BB round.

 

[Alk8944]

The following link goes to a Shooting Times article about the .38 Special Super Police load. Go ahead and read it if you want to know about this .38 Special variation. An interesting at the very beginning stated "Much of it's reputation was based on assumption" There is an embedded video in the article. The video wouldn't start for me and the article was only 2 years old!

What there is in this article, not very much, states that the Winchester load was discontinued in 1981, and the Remington in 1989, so this entire thread is really moot since it is unlikely you will find any of this ammunition! I have chronographed the Winchester load in the past and the velocity was the lowest .38 factory load I have ever seen!

The .38 Special 200-Grain 'Police Load' - Shooting Times

 

[rockquarry]

The following link goes to a Shooting Times article about the .38 Special Super Police load. Go ahead and read it if you want to know about this .38 Special variation. An interesting at the very beginning stated "Much of it's reputation was based on assumption" There is an embedded video in the article.

The .38 Special 200-Grain 'Police Load' - Shooting Times

I'm not an advocate of jello shooting, but Allan Jones is a very knowlegeable writer. I've known him many years. His experience goes far beyond that of most of the YouTube-type hotshots and the aspiring gunfighting fantasizers and theorists we have today.

 

[venomballistics]

Back in the day before hollow points were popular, it was a viable round because of its mass. IMHO there are much better rounds today.

When I carried a Chief's Special for SD I used primarily Buffalo Bore 158 grain +P LSWCHP-GC. Out of the 2" bbl. it did 1,025 fps (checked personally many times). IMHO it is the best you can get out of a 2" snubby! Second best was the Speer 135 grain +P GDHP. The velocity was much slower and the energy was also less, but it had a good street record and had way less recoil for those who could not handle the BB round.

Agreed. even then, they had better designs in the Keith type SWC and various other flat points.
With these, you have some terminal upset you can count on when expansion is not guaranteed. A big flat metplat means a lot more than many would think. Pure RN designs are easier on the reload, but at sub 1000 fps it's almost like jabbing the recipient with a 3/8" rod.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

This here 200gr, lead bullet factory load is not going to turn the bad guy upside down and slam him into opposite wall. I think it will give good results out of short barrels. One or two of these in
bad guys pelt is going to make him extremely sick. You can tell they got a little torque when launched out of a M36 snubby. They are very accurate out of 14s. Now saving them for the CCW guns.
Makes more sense to me than +P or better in short barrel guns.

I was going to say that is very old boxing, late 1970s and early 1980s. So you have some 40+ year old ammunition.

@Alk8944 is spot on.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

We all differ, you know, YMMV. I carry a M649 loaded with 158 gr, jacketed, semi-wadcutters. They'll do to ride the river with.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

JHPs are the way to go. But nothing wrong with a 158 grain LSWCHP or a JSWC in a snubby either.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have loaded only 2 different loads with a 200gr bullet.

I bought the correct 200gr lead bullet to load the old 38/200 for my Enfield pistol, just because.

I have also loaded a 200gr Cast bullet to .38 Special +P pressures for testing in a levergun. They actually shot well and hit very hard but that was from a carbine length barrel, not a revolver. The powder was 2400 with a CCI-500 primer.

Other than those 2 I don't think a 200gr bullet in a .38 Special has a place today.

 

[ruger 22]

A very interesting discussion. My real life experience has shown that even in a 2" snub these did work quite well.

 

[venomballistics]

They will work, over on the cast boolits forum, 200 grain bullets in 38 special, and in 38 sw are very common discussions. Even have some interesting sticky threads for these loads.

Also, do not discount the 200+ grain bullets for bowling pin shoots in special or magnum.

Honestly, I'm entertaining the thought of a 200 RN in 350 Legend.
In this role, the velocity is high enough where expansion is a high probability. I'm currently messing with the "classic" 358311 Lyman in the AR platform to these ends. No range test of yet, But it shows promise in terms of feed and function.
If this runs well enough, a 200g of similar style would make sense.