Any suggestions, aside from get a bigger gun , on a good load for the .380 acp. Need a deep concealment/backup and the flat slide of my ppk is easier on me than my j frames. I was thinking about the DPX ammo but cant find any data to support this, so any suggestions?
.380 ammo choices
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Any suggestions, aside from get a bigger gun , on a good load for the .380 acp. Need a deep concealment/backup and the flat slide of my ppk is easier on me than my j frames. I was thinking about the DPX ammo but cant find any data to support this, so any suggestions?
Search thru here, this is a favorite topic. There is a recent test of the new Hornady rounds.
Erich
Member
You know, Steve Camp's post here last week on the newest Hornady Critical Defense ammo for the .380 certainly looked promising.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/695107034/m/5071005733
I can tell you that I've worked on a couple of .380 _hollowpoint_ shooting cases in which the rounds didn't penetrate adequately (you've got a lightweight bullet traveling pretty slow and then the hollowpoint opens and acts as a brake). I've worked on many .380 FMJ cases and found the rounds always penetrated adequately. Personally, I'd use the hottest .380 FMJ that functioned well in a PPK, though I'd consider that new Hornady stuff.
Best of luck with it, amigo.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/695107034/m/5071005733
I can tell you that I've worked on a couple of .380 _hollowpoint_ shooting cases in which the rounds didn't penetrate adequately (you've got a lightweight bullet traveling pretty slow and then the hollowpoint opens and acts as a brake). I've worked on many .380 FMJ cases and found the rounds always penetrated adequately. Personally, I'd use the hottest .380 FMJ that functioned well in a PPK, though I'd consider that new Hornady stuff.
Best of luck with it, amigo.
Erich
Member
I disagree.
The Kel-Tec has a locked breech and is probably safer and more reliable with more powerful ammo than the blowback SIG-Sauers or Walthers.
I found that my SIG-Sauer P232 would not run reliably with extra-power Double Tap .380. My friend's P3AT liked it just fine. I'm not saying that Kel-Tecs aren't schlocky-feeling guns (their actions remind me of the feel of the little plastic "Zebra Gun" pistol that my little brother used to play with when he was eight), but I believe that their locked-breech mechanism is stronger than and capable of handling more powerful ammo than those on a Walther or SIG-Sauer .380 pistol.
If you go away from conventional-power .380s, fire enough of the round to be very sure that it will properly actuate your Walther. Blowbacks are "engines" that function only with "fuel" of a certain power range. Get too much energy into the slide and weird things start to happen: on my P232 with the powerful Double Tap .380s, the slide velocity was too high to ensure that the rounds fed properly out of the magazine for smooth functioning. Possibly I could have fixed this with stronger magazine springs and a more powerful recoil spring (although the mainspring of a blowback is also part of the equation), but I'm not an engineer and don't have that much time to burn so I simply decided to use ammo that was within the gun's design parameters.
The Kel-Tec has a locked breech and is probably safer and more reliable with more powerful ammo than the blowback SIG-Sauers or Walthers.
I found that my SIG-Sauer P232 would not run reliably with extra-power Double Tap .380. My friend's P3AT liked it just fine. I'm not saying that Kel-Tecs aren't schlocky-feeling guns (their actions remind me of the feel of the little plastic "Zebra Gun" pistol that my little brother used to play with when he was eight), but I believe that their locked-breech mechanism is stronger than and capable of handling more powerful ammo than those on a Walther or SIG-Sauer .380 pistol.
If you go away from conventional-power .380s, fire enough of the round to be very sure that it will properly actuate your Walther. Blowbacks are "engines" that function only with "fuel" of a certain power range. Get too much energy into the slide and weird things start to happen: on my P232 with the powerful Double Tap .380s, the slide velocity was too high to ensure that the rounds fed properly out of the magazine for smooth functioning. Possibly I could have fixed this with stronger magazine springs and a more powerful recoil spring (although the mainspring of a blowback is also part of the equation), but I'm not an engineer and don't have that much time to burn so I simply decided to use ammo that was within the gun's design parameters.
flop-shank
US Veteran
Erich, did you se my write up on Fiocchi Extrema .380? That is a deep penetrating hollowpoint, featuring the Hornady 90 gr. XTP bullet. I figured those would be right up your alley, and they're only about $23.00 for a box of fifty.Originally posted by Erich:
I can tell you that I've worked on a couple of .380 _hollowpoint_ shooting cases in which the rounds didn't penetrate adequately (you've got a lightweight bullet traveling pretty slow and then the hollowpoint opens and acts as a brake). I've worked on many .380 FMJ cases and found the rounds always penetrated adequately. Personally, I'd use the hottest .380 FMJ that functioned well in a PPK, though I'd consider that new Hornady stuff.
A search in the Test Bed forum at www.stoppingpower.net should yield useful Gelatin test results. IIRC the Golden Sabre was a little on the shallow side as far as penetration is concerned. www.brassfetcher.com should have useful info also.
The thing that I found out about golden sabres are the muzzle flash is pretty big.. I just switched over from my golden sabres to hornady TAP XTP. They are exclusively made for cabelas, and what I have found out about these are no muzzle flash. To me that is important as well as shot placement. They are extremely accurate with zero muzzle flash. They feed the best from all the other 380s that I have fed, my Sig 232 and Ruger LCP. I am highly recommending these because I just compared them at the range on Tuesday. As a matter of fact, I have switched all my calibers over to the hornady TAPs.
If you're having timing problems (as opposed to breaking parts) a fresh sets of springs to match the load is the usual fix. I use hot .380 handloads that ruin the cases for reuse, but the pistol is sprung and timed for them, so there are no reliability issues.
Erich
Member
I'm sure that's exactly what I said. I'd have had to orchestrate the recoil spring, mainspring and magazine spring to match the load.
flop-shank
US Veteran
My hunch is that DPX is as good as it gets. I've never fired .380 DPX , but hope to test it this year. The Barnes X bullet seems perfect for the .380.
flop-shank
US Veteran
I just looked over on www.stoppingpower.net . DPX gelatin test impressed me that it's an underpenetrator. I may still try it myself, but it's definately a back burner type project.
Ron Thompson
Member
What about Corbon PowrBall in 380?
flop-shank
US Veteran
They shot it into gelatin at www.stoppingpower.net . Look there for results.
Trigger Finger
Member
One of the guns Buffalo Bore tests it's 380 ammo in is a PPK/S I believe. I think it should be ok to shoot occasionally. I think this is the hottest 380 ammo I have found.
Call me old fashioned but I like the Winchester Silvertips. The new Hornady ammo is also worth a look!
Call me old fashioned but I like the Winchester Silvertips. The new Hornady ammo is also worth a look!
gatorhugger
Member
DPX has pitiful penetration in meat.
This bullet is way too light and underpowered.
The ONE bullet I would stay away from at all cost in a 380. I am serious about this. Don't do it! Anything but this bullet in a 380.
It's almost in the fragmentation class since it just will not penetrate reliably.
This bullet is way too light and underpowered.
The ONE bullet I would stay away from at all cost in a 380. I am serious about this. Don't do it! Anything but this bullet in a 380.
It's almost in the fragmentation class since it just will not penetrate reliably.
If I were to carry a 380, I'd go with the Golden Saber, it's a 102 grain bullet.
Don't think your going to get any expansion in a 380, so might as well have the heaver bullet.
And you never know, it might expand.
Don't think your going to get any expansion in a 380, so might as well have the heaver bullet.
And you never know, it might expand.
flop-shank
US Veteran
Pretty much any .380 will penetrate over 16" if it doesn't expand, so 90 gr. loads are fine.
gatorhugger
Member
Have faith, sabers will expand. Even rumbling at turtle speed, these brass jackets will peel back leaving a nice hunk of lead.
These 102 grain bullets will also overcome obstacles better than the 90 grainers.
However,The corbon personal protection is a a good choice if you really want the 90 grainers.
Really a lot of it is splitting hairs.
Corbon JHP, Buffalo gold dots, Golden Sabers all are pretty darn good stuff.
flop-shank
US Veteran
I'm leary of the Corbon .380s. I bought some Sierra .90 gr. .355 bullets, loaded them to Min. OAL and the cartridges wouldn't even chamber in my Kel-tec. The bullet hit the rifling before the breech closed. I wonder if others have had the same results with Corbon .380 JHPs?
marvin knox
Member
I carry a Ruger LCP when all else fails to fit the occasion. I load it up with the Hornady Critical Defense round.
I've been considering alternating with a very hot round like the BB but haven't got around to trying any.
I've gone round and round on .380 ammo until my head hurts.
I trust Mr. Camp's tests. He strikes me as someone I can trust. That's why I have happily settled on Hornady Critical Defense as my main carry round even if I do end up alternating with hotter stuff to hedge my bets.
I do think that penetration is pretty much king when considering any kind of "stopping" ability with the .380 guns. You've got to reach the vitals and hopefully the spinal area from the front to the back with any hope of stopping an assailant. But then, isn't that true of ANY handgun bullet?
That's why the hedging of bets with a hot flat point from BB etc. alternating with my main load - even though Hornady is deffinately now in the picture to stay.
I've been considering alternating with a very hot round like the BB but haven't got around to trying any.
I've gone round and round on .380 ammo until my head hurts.
I trust Mr. Camp's tests. He strikes me as someone I can trust. That's why I have happily settled on Hornady Critical Defense as my main carry round even if I do end up alternating with hotter stuff to hedge my bets.
I do think that penetration is pretty much king when considering any kind of "stopping" ability with the .380 guns. You've got to reach the vitals and hopefully the spinal area from the front to the back with any hope of stopping an assailant. But then, isn't that true of ANY handgun bullet?
That's why the hedging of bets with a hot flat point from BB etc. alternating with my main load - even though Hornady is deffinately now in the picture to stay.
gatorhugger
Member
You are correct Corbons JHP's are absolutely an issue in certain guns. One of the reasons the Ruger LCP got recalled is the Corbons were not seating right. I shot em in my Keltec and LCP and in my LCP experienced just what you did. It didn't seem to chamber right.
Didn't have any malfunctions but it did make me leery.
Heck of a bullet though. They have some zip to em.
flop-shank
US Veteran
Thanks for the confirmation, Gator. I have to agree about Sierra bullets. If there was any bullet I would trust to work well in a .380, it would be a Sierra. Too bad they have issues with the rifling.
Also, if you do a search in this forum, I started a thread about my tests of Buffalo Bore's .380 +P Gold Dot. It is a great performer in Perma-Gel, but too hard on guns IMO. Maybe Rugers are tougher than Kel-tecs, but I wouldn't chance it. That load beat the snot out of my gun.
Marvin, stop hurting your head and just run with what you're using. I believe those Hornadys you're packing use the same bullet, at the same velocity, as the Fiocchi Extrema .380 I tested. If the bullet expands, you will get 12" penetration, if it doesn't, you're looking at around 16". I wouldn't waste my time "dutch loading" my pistol if I were you.
Also, if you do a search in this forum, I started a thread about my tests of Buffalo Bore's .380 +P Gold Dot. It is a great performer in Perma-Gel, but too hard on guns IMO. Maybe Rugers are tougher than Kel-tecs, but I wouldn't chance it. That load beat the snot out of my gun.
marvin knox
Member
QUOTE]...........Marvin, stop hurting your head and just run with what you're using. I believe those Hornadys..................[/QUOTE]
I think you may well be right there. My head does hurt.
I remember all the considering of different carry ammo that I went through with my flyweight .357 snub. I finally settled on DPX 125 gr. at around 1100fps or a little less.
It has less kick than most all of the .357 ammo out there. The DPX bullet can expand well and still penetrate well at snubbie velocities of a little under 1100fps. Not many can say that. I've found a cheap practice round that kicks about the same and has the same POI.
My head no longer hurts from that decision. I'm set for life and I won't go through any more considerations concerning that particular carry gun's ammo.
I probably should do the same with the .380. I trust Steven Camp's evaluation. It looks like it's a fine performer (as good as can be expected any way). If it's not the best - at least it's right up there with the best. It also doesn't hurt my little gun or my hand much . I'll probably shoot better with it than anything hotter, expecially left handed etc.
A real good feeling comes over me when I consider that I have made my final ammo choice and can now just relax and practice. I think it may be wise to trust that feeling.
(My little LCP will probably thank me after a few hundred rounds as well.)
I think you may well be right there. My head does hurt.
I remember all the considering of different carry ammo that I went through with my flyweight .357 snub. I finally settled on DPX 125 gr. at around 1100fps or a little less.
It has less kick than most all of the .357 ammo out there. The DPX bullet can expand well and still penetrate well at snubbie velocities of a little under 1100fps. Not many can say that. I've found a cheap practice round that kicks about the same and has the same POI.
My head no longer hurts from that decision. I'm set for life and I won't go through any more considerations concerning that particular carry gun's ammo.
I probably should do the same with the .380. I trust Steven Camp's evaluation. It looks like it's a fine performer (as good as can be expected any way). If it's not the best - at least it's right up there with the best. It also doesn't hurt my little gun or my hand much . I'll probably shoot better with it than anything hotter, expecially left handed etc.
A real good feeling comes over me when I consider that I have made my final ammo choice and can now just relax and practice. I think it may be wise to trust that feeling.
(My little LCP will probably thank me after a few hundred rounds as well.)
flop-shank
US Veteran
As long as your gun is 100% reliable, your work is done, Marvin.
I do stand corrected on one thing I said above. The Critical Defense ammo features the Hornady FTX bullet which is different from that which Fiocchi Extrema uses. Extrema uses the XTP bullet. If you haven't fired a sufficient quantity of Critical Defense through your gun to be done with reliability testing, you might want to try Extrema. It is way less expensive than Hornady or the Speer ammo I use, and every bit as good.
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