.380 load (Calling Erich)

[bmcgilvray]

Hi Erich;

Bo and I chronographed some Santa Barbara ammunition which clocked 1032 fps from the P3AT. This ammunition was imported in quantity a few years back. It gave every impression of being loaded very hot.

I bought up a bunch of it for practice use because it was cheap ($2.25 per 25 rnd. box) but didn't shoot all that much of it due to its vigorous nature.

Only my opinion but the locked breach design of the P3AT probably handles this type ammunition better than would a blow-back design.

If I tote a .380 I avoid all expanding type ammunition. The round is what it is and seems best employed to maximize penetration to the vitals.

 

[Erich]

Yeah, buddy! That would be a standout, wouldn't it? Those were some hot Spanish rounds - pity they're hard to find nowadays. I agree with your thinking on the probable durability of the P3AT/LCP with the locked-breech design.

Some great chrono data linked here, BTW, but you have to dig around through some bad links for it:

Ammunition and Ballistics at mouseguns.com

 

[jimgoldth]

Aw! another confirmation as to why I gave up my .380s for the second time. They carry so nice but I am not sure they can do the job.

 

[Treeman]

It appears that I have a 'fast' P3at. Anyone who does a lot of chronographing has probably noted nontypical for caliber firearms-and it isn't just revolvers with varying barrel/cylinder gaps. Chamber dimensions, bore dimensions and finishand firing pin shape and strike energy can all combine to slightly enhance or degrade performance from "normal".........So even more than before I think "ball" is the way to go in tiny .380s

 

[Erich]

Gotta love that - I have a "fast" Sigma, myself!

 

[Rule3]

Erich,

I was reading this thread and others a but I unfortunately do not know your area of experience or profession . Would you shed some light on that for those of us who do not know??
Just curious and if it is not something you want to post, I understand .
Thanks

 

[Erich]

I've worked on these cases briefly (a couple of years) as a private investigator for a criminal defense lawyer when I was in law school and as a prosecutor (a bit over a year), and since then as appellate defense counsel (since '95). For several years there I also worked closely with the trial capital defense unit (a centralized unit that handled the majority of the potential first-degree murder cases in the state). Because my office handles almost all of them, I wind up working in some capacity (consulting or as assigned counsel) on most of my state's appeals of killing convictions.

 

[Rule3]

Thanks, sounds interesting. At first I thought you were in the Medical field.

 

[Erich]

No, but I get to read a lot of after-action reports by docs.

 

[flop-shank]

While your at it...

What about a 90gr XTP at over 1100fps. Still light, but movin a little better. Would something like this do the job?

I don't know about 1100 fps., but XTPs as loaded by Fiocci, in their Extrema line of ammo (.380 Extrema test results are in the Perma-Gel threadpost #6) penetrate well. Sometimes pushing a bullet faster will make it penetrate deeper, sometimes it will penetrate less. A lot depends on the velocities involved and the design of the bullet.

Erich, thank you for your response at the end of page two.

Sven, I don't dutch load my weapons. I pick a load that I like and just run with it. YMMV.

 

[SWAT Lt.]

Erich,
I am not with the Bureau but my unit works closely with them, including several of their firearms instructors. It is my understanding they do not authorize the .380 (I don't believe they ever have) and no longer authorize revolvers. The smallest caliber currently authorized is the 9mm.

 

[Erich]

Thanks. Wow. Interesting.

Yeah, that sort of says something to me. I'm back thinking about that "perfect storm" of "too penetrative in ball" and "not penetrative enough in hollowpoint." Since I can buy a 9x19 that's the size of a .380 . . .

 

[flop-shank]

Yeah, Erich. The thought of a Rohrbaugh enters my mind at times.

 

[Erich]

Had one once:

Kahr is another alternative (used to have one of them, too):

This one, I've actually kept:

 

[flop-shank]

Why did you get rid of the Rohrbaugh, bro?

 

[Erich]

You know, since we're here, I'll stick to talking about S&W firearms. It just wasn't for me; same with the Kahr.

 

[shovelwrench]

I don't know about 1100 fps., but XTPs as loaded by Fiocci, in their Extrema line of ammo (.380 Extrema test results are in the Perma-Gel threadpost #6) penetrate well. Sometimes pushing a bullet faster will make it penetrate deeper, sometimes it will penetrate less. A lot depends on the velocities involved and the design of the bullet.

Erich, thank you for your response at the end of page two.

Sven, I don't dutch load my weapons. I pick a load that I like and just run with it. YMMV.

Beleive me, 1100 is doable.... I've been using Power Pistol. I have a load somewhere that is a much heavier charge then what Alliant shows now, I have to look some more.

I can't seem to find the info you refer to?

 

[Goodtime Charlie]

Erich:

Thank you for your very good information and advice on the .380 ACP. I had been carrying the Golden Saber in my P3AT, but upon reading your advice, I just now switched it out for the WWB flat point FMJ's, which it has shot reliably with in the past. My P3AT had problems with the AE FMJ, so I won't carry it. I have some Prvi Partisan FMJ but I haven't tested it yet. So, I'm now loading with the WWB. Hopefully it will get the job done, should I ever need it. It is a tertiary weapon, so the odds are against needing it, thankfully!

Oh, and to drift the thread a little, I also carry the 135 gr. Speer SB load in my 442-2. That's my secondary/weak side gun, with a Kel-Tec PF-9 loaded with 147 gr. standard pressure HST as my primary. Someday I hope to replace it with a Glock 26 or 27.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Erich]

Man, I hope that you never need to draw your third gun, too! Yikes!

Glad my thoughts were of interest. I suspect that overpenetration is probably not going to be much of a concern (given proper shot-placement) with the Winchester flat-point ball out of your P3AT. Always remember Rule Four, though - just in case!

 

[m41]

Erich

Erich I took you advise and was ordering the 38 wadcutters from Buffalo Bore and I saw these loads for a 380. I have never shot any +P loads in my Kel Tec 3pat but these loads seem to penetrate very well I was just wondering if you were familiar with these and which do you think would be the best load for the Kel Tec?

1.Item 27A/20 is a 100gr. HARD cast bullet with a flat nose. It is traveling over 1,150 fps out of my 3.75 inch BDA (Browning Double Action).
2.Item 27B/20 is the very same load as 27A above, but it uses a 95 gr. FMJ-FN (Full metal jacket-flat nose) bullet. We designed it for folks who simply don't like hard cast bullets
3.Item 27C/20 is a 90gr. Jacketed Hollow Point bullet and is the only hollow nosed expanding bullet we trust to expand reliably, yet penetrate deep enough to be lethal on a drugged up, pain free attacker. It is traveling over 1,200 fps out of my BDA (Browning Double Action) with its 3.75 inch barrel.