.380 load (Calling Erich)

I'm sorry, M41: I just don't know. I suppose it would depend on how fast they traveled out of your gun (and, as we've seen on this thread, there can be quite a spread in how fast a given round will travel out of even the same model of autopistol). The concerns, of course, are that you want something that will function flawlessly in your gun and that will give accurate placement, and you don't want something that will overpenetrate or that won't penetrate sufficiently.

You know, the only time I've ever messed with greater-than-average-powered .380s were the Double Tap rounds that I mentioned up-thread. I can tell you that they did not function reliably in my SIG-Sauer P232 (not a real surprise: blowback guns are designed to function with rounds of a certain range of oomph, and these rounds were likely outside that range) or my friend's Kel-Tec P3AT (which surprised me, since it was a locked-breech gun). (This was a disappointment, as I'd spent a decent little chunk of cash on obtaining 100 rounds of the DT loading as soon as it was released.)

So, my first concern would be whether the various Buffalo Bore loads (definitely outside the mundane envelope of .380 performance) would function reliably in your gun. The second concern that would have to be addressed before I'd carry them is whether they would they be likely to overpenetrate out of your gun. Only if I were satisfied on the first two points would I worry about underpenetration.

The problem is that I just can't predict any of these things - sorry. :(
 
Great thread. My meager contribution is that the FBI has never (at least in the last 40 years or so) issued .380s to regular street agents.

There were .380s in the inventory for issue to guys working undercover who want a "non-cop" type gun. I knew a guy who carried a PPK, and the ammo issued with it was Silvertip hollowpoint. That was years ago - with so many bad guys carrying Glocks there's no real "cop guns" these days, anyway.
 
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M41, FWIW, I tested Buffalo Bore's .380+P 90 gr. Gold Dot load in my P3AT. They are too hot and will destroy the gun quickly IMO. Ballistically they were as bad to the bone as a .380 is ever likely to get. It's too bad they didn't work out.
 
Yoiks! Good info, flop-shank. The locked-breech might make the gun's action strong, but it's still a really light little .380 and having the thing come apart when you needed it would be most unfortunate.
 
Erich said:
Yoiks! Good info, flop-shank. The locked-breech might make the gun's action strong, but it's still a really light little .380 and having the thing come apart when you needed it would be most unfortunate.
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So very true, especially with the availability of itty-bitty 9mms that are pretty much the same size as the .380s.

Waaaay back when, I went through a period of hot rodding .357s. Fortunately, my model 28 was/is a robust beast and allowed me to see the error of my ways without damaging either it or me. If you need to hit harder, get a bigger hammer.
 
I don't know if this is true, and I don't have the facts to correlate it. But I have heard that the Ruger LCP can handle +p .380 loads whereas an P-3AT cannot. Anyone know this for certain? Just curious, not that I can find any +p .380 loads to even test. I have several Hydrashok and Golden Saber rounds. Right now I keep Hydrashoks in my LCP. When I carry it. I mostly rely on the M&P340 stoked with Corbon .357 mags in my pocket and I carry the LCP when I feel like a change. But I feel inadequate when I have the LCP. :(

It seems I have found the answer to my own question. Here is a quote direct from Ruger posted by an LCP owner on another forum. I will post it as he has.

Thank you for using the Ruger On-Line Customer Support Request Form.

This e-mail is in response to your question or comment of 08/07/2009
Request No: 37758

Comment / question:

I am an LCP owner. I would like to know Ruger's official position on the use of +P 380 ammunition in the LCP. I fully understand that there is no SAAMI +P rating for the 380 but at least two manufacturers are selling 380 ammo with a +P rating, some with listed velocities as high as 1175 fps with a 90 grain bullet. Does Ruger consider these safe in the LCP?

Thanks,
XXXXXXXXXXX

Response:
No. The Ruger LCP was not designed for use with +P ammunition. Given the LCP’s lightweight and compact design, the use of +P ammunition in this particular model may result damage to the firearm or personal injury.

If you need further information, please visit our website at Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc. or contact us at:

Revolvers, shotguns, rifles, 10/22 Charger Pistol: (603) 865-2442
Pistols: (928) 778-6555
Serial Number History Information: (603) 865-2424

Please note: This e-mail is sent from a notification-only address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. Please do not reply to this message.

Sincerely,
Ruger Firearms
 
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According to the manual and the people at Ruger tech support the LCP can NOT handle any +P rounds.
 
Erich

I got a email back from Buffalo Bore and he said that he carried a Kel Tec most of the time and he used the 100 gr hard cast flat nose at 1061 fps out of his Tel Kel. He said they hadn't had any problem with any of the 3 loads. I thought I would get a box and fire a clip and see how it does and what kind of recoil it has and if everhthing is ok, I may use them to carry.
 
m41 said:
I got a email back from Buffalo Bore and he said that he carried a Kel Tec most of the time and he used the 100 gr hard cast flat nose at 1061 fps out of his Tel Kel. He said they hadn't had any problem with any of the 3 loads. I thought I would get a box and fire a clip and see how it does and what kind of recoil it has and if everhthing is ok, I may use them to carry.
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Well I can tell you that the fifth or sixth round of the first full magazine of +P Gold Dots popped my takedown pin halfway out and that ammo peened the crap out of my gun's aluminum chassis. Do what you want, but you're wasting your time IMO. I'm not interested in selling you ammo. Buffalo Bore is. I am trying to save you guys some grief.
 
25 years in LE has caused me to rethink my position on the 380ACP. Personally, I feel the 380 is at its best in the KelTec or Ruger sized guns and should only be carried when it is impossible to carry something bigger, or as a 2nd or 3rd gun. It beats having nothing, but that's about it IMO.

BTW, if I carried one I would go with standard factory ammo from the larger companies and not mess with the "+P" stuff. Extra recoil, reduced reliability, and increased wear on the weapon are all I can see coming from the use of those.
 
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Erich

I spoke to Kel Tec this morning concerning +P ammunition in the 380. My owners manual says it will accept +P ammunition, however not with continuous use. The gentleman I spoke to says that really means the gun can shoot 6 rounds of +P and that is all, and then it would probably become a single shot pistol, so I am still looking for a good round for pentration and expansion.
 
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Hmmph. I'd be inclined to stay away from the hot stuff, myself, based on what I'm hearing. Thanks for the follow-up info! :)
 
My 380 Load

Ok, I’m going to wade into this one and you can take it for what it’s worth.

I own a Colt 380 Government Model, the full sized one with 3.25 inch barrel. This being a shrunken 1911 I thought I might be able to improve its performance. What I have settled on is this load:

Lee 120 grain Truncated Cone bullet cast of wheel weights sized to .355 and lubed in a Lyman 45 luber/sizer.

4.6 grains of Alliant Power Pistol.

This load is chronographed at 951 fps 10 feet from the muzzle. The math says this is 241 foot pounds of energy.

Compare that to what Winchester shows on their website for a 38 Special +P 125 grain JHP at 948 fps and 248 foot pounds.

I have not tested for penetration but plan to in the near future.
 

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That's a carry combo I'd love to have, though I'd want to know about the penetration results first. Sounds really interesting.

Loading for the .380 was why I first bought Power Pistol (I've come to really like it in a number of other calibers as well) - it does seem to give the best velocity numbers in the .380.
 
Erich,

I'm going to take it to the farm this weekend and test in gallon water jugs. Along with a 44 Special self defense load that I want to test the same way (but that will be addressed in a separate thread.
 
SWAT Lt. said:
BTW, if I carried one I would go with standard factory ammo from the larger companies and not mess with the "+P" stuff. Extra recoil, reduced reliability, and increased wear on the weapon are all I can see coming from the use of those.
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Lt. sir, I agree that +P is a waste of time, but the increase in velocity does turn the excellent .380 Gold Dot (the best I've tested, but still a marginal expander) into an almost guaranteed expander. There was a difference and it was impressive. Too bad the P3AT isn't up to them, and yes, they are slower on follow up shots and control.

Guys it's a long weekend. I'll get all my .380 results posted in the Perma-Gel thread.

M41, I had the best results with Speer Gold Dot. That's what I carried until I cooked up a clone.

Erich, I use Power Pistol to fuel that clone. ;) It burns much cleaner than Herco or Unique and meters much better.

KS, I'm looking forward to reading what you learn.
 
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