hannstv
Member
I would recommend the one you can draw the quickest and put two accurate rounds on target the fastest. Pretty sure I would run out of time before I ran out of ammo, even with a J frame.
.380 or .38 special?
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Marshal Tom
Member
One thing that has not been mentioned is the fact that .380 is generally harder to find and more expensive than 9mm. Many years ago a .380 was usually smaller than a 9mm but that is not the case today. I teach and advise folks on gun purchases a lot. I recommend 9mm over a .380 due to cost and power unless someone has to have a tiny gun which I usually do not recommend either. I also have found that most folks shoot a semi auto better than snub revolvers. Snubs are for experienced shooters IMHO.All have their place. I have and carry a 649ND and a 432UC, a recent purchase but most often carry a 9mm medium sized semi for increased capacity, faster reloading etc.
I carried the LCP Max for about two and a half years and loved the size, capacity and concealability. After two trips back to Ruger it finally reliably shot any and all .380 ammo, but still shot low. As such, I looked high and low for a replacement for the LCP Max. Enter the new S&W Bodyguard 2.0. I bought one last week and it ran flawlessly. The size is comparable to the LCP Max but I shoot it so much better.
Gunhohulk
Member
My go to for several years was a Ruger LC9 with a laser in my pocket but with changing job duties which include climbing on ladders and crawling around on the ground repairing things in busy public areas I found that it's been easier to conceal a j-frame in an appendix holster and have been using my M&P 340 pretty exclusively. I don't worry about the trade off in caliber/capacity but there are concerns about the blueing on that very nice model 49 you have. Depending where you live I would give it a once over with an oily rag every week and do a deeper cleaning every month or two. It's amazing the gunk that builds up on a gun that's carried daily and I e had rust sneak up on the blues steel parts of both my LC9 and 340.
38 Special is good to go and will do the job, if it's needed.
The plus side is, you pull this out, and a bad guy might have more of a response to what looks like a bigger/badder weapon (psychological response) vs whipping out an LCP.
Yes, it may be heavier, but chances are it'll run great, and you have a second strike capability a lot quicker then beating the magazine and trying to rack it if it fails on you. If it came down to that, of course.
Plus, old revolvers are just cool and classy. LCPs are a dime a dozen.
I say good find.
For comparison, I had a Glock 42 at one point. Never a problem. Ran well. Just didn't like 380, it's power or prices...
The plus side is, you pull this out, and a bad guy might have more of a response to what looks like a bigger/badder weapon (psychological response) vs whipping out an LCP.
Yes, it may be heavier, but chances are it'll run great, and you have a second strike capability a lot quicker then beating the magazine and trying to rack it if it fails on you. If it came down to that, of course.
Plus, old revolvers are just cool and classy. LCPs are a dime a dozen.
I say good find.
For comparison, I had a Glock 42 at one point. Never a problem. Ran well. Just didn't like 380, it's power or prices...
For me it depends on threat/paranoia level. Normally, I have a 642 with me with HST's and a reload of Gold Dot. It's easy to carry and I shoot it instinctively well. If the paranoia level is higher or the threat environment is different, I can swap to a Glock 48. From there it's a ladder based on threat environment. 10mm is probably as high as I would go in my region of the country. There's nothing around here that 10mm won't handle. I'm not a fan of 380 for self defense, but if someone shoots it well and they find it easy to carry, or it's the only thing they can handle recoil wise, I wouldn't criticize it.
As an afterthought, 38 special certainly did a number on Oswald.
As an afterthought, 38 special certainly did a number on Oswald.
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I carried a S&W M60 for over 40 years and carried Buffalo Bore 158 grain SWCHP +P's in it. IMHO they are the best 38 special SD round anywhere. 5 years ago I switched over to a Sig P365 in 9mm which holds 11 on-board.
I do have a bunch of friends that have also switched from their trusted J frame's to the Ruger LCP Max in .380. While I doubt anyone with any sense would argue that the .380 is a better SD round, there is a lot to be said for the 11 on-board rounds of 380, smaller and lighter size than the J frame by 50%, faster reloads, easier to shoot and vastly easier to conceal. Much also has to do with the climate you live in, your daily dress and how you CCW as well as how you shoot both of them.
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There is another consideration for you if I may. You could also step up to a Sig P365, a SA Hellcat, a FN Reflex, or any one of the other Micro 9's. They are all still smaller in overall size than a J Frame, thinner, lighter, carry 11,12,or 13 on board and the 9mm is an even better round than the 38 spl. is. Pocket carrying a Micro 9 is easier and more convenient than a 5 shot J frame as well. My personal preference is not to carry a .380 for SD.
I do have a bunch of friends that have also switched from their trusted J frame's to the Ruger LCP Max in .380. While I doubt anyone with any sense would argue that the .380 is a better SD round, there is a lot to be said for the 11 on-board rounds of 380, smaller and lighter size than the J frame by 50%, faster reloads, easier to shoot and vastly easier to conceal. Much also has to do with the climate you live in, your daily dress and how you CCW as well as how you shoot both of them.
ADDED:
There is another consideration for you if I may. You could also step up to a Sig P365, a SA Hellcat, a FN Reflex, or any one of the other Micro 9's. They are all still smaller in overall size than a J Frame, thinner, lighter, carry 11,12,or 13 on board and the 9mm is an even better round than the 38 spl. is. Pocket carrying a Micro 9 is easier and more convenient than a 5 shot J frame as well. My personal preference is not to carry a .380 for SD.
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I don't carry IWB. Appendix is so out of the question as to not even be considered. For many years I carried a sweet Colt Government Model .380 then I switched. Why did I switch, because if I needed to go to condition 1 and actually had to draw and fire I didn't want Johnny law taking my $900.00 Colt and adding it to his collection. Now I carry a 9-mm Kimber or a Llama .32 auto for EDC. Do I feel under armed with the .32? Not in the least. I shoot all three well enough that you don't want to me on the wrong side of the muzzle. As I have stated elsewhere on this forum; when I have to go into a major city where offensive action is likely, the small ones go into the closet, and I keep my M-59 handy. Not because I shoot it any less proficiently but because its size is intimidating. So far that has been all that was needed to ward off a possible altercation. That fella took one look at that big hunk of metal hanging there and decided someone else made a better target for his aggressive intentions. I'm pretty sure that in his eyes, I was an off duty or plainclothes officer. I've been told by some folks who have street smarts that in reality I have the look of an LEO.
Llance
Llance
"--------------and the rounds go where I point my arm."
That right there is the name of the game----never mind how hard they hit or how many you've got---one's aplenty so long as your arm is pointed at the right place.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see groups proudly displayed here that look like they were made by a shotgun, noting they were fired at a whole seven yards!
There came a time, more than a few years ago, when carry permits were no longer passed out by the county Sheriffs, but by the state---and you had to go to school. At the end of the school you had to shoot 48 rounds(?) at a full size silhouette target at a whole seven yards. Most of the folks shot this "test" with .22's. I shot it with my everyday gun, a Colt Special Combat Government .45 (with loaded clips ready to go)---and I shot those 48 rounds just as fast as I could. Perhaps needless to say, I was showing off more than a little bit, and all 48 rounds were inside the center mass scoring ring. The instructor walked down the line, checking targets at the end---passed by, and just shook his head.
I figured I passed---never mind my neighbors fussed about the noise I made.
Ralph Tremaine
That right there is the name of the game----never mind how hard they hit or how many you've got---one's aplenty so long as your arm is pointed at the right place.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see groups proudly displayed here that look like they were made by a shotgun, noting they were fired at a whole seven yards!
There came a time, more than a few years ago, when carry permits were no longer passed out by the county Sheriffs, but by the state---and you had to go to school. At the end of the school you had to shoot 48 rounds(?) at a full size silhouette target at a whole seven yards. Most of the folks shot this "test" with .22's. I shot it with my everyday gun, a Colt Special Combat Government .45 (with loaded clips ready to go)---and I shot those 48 rounds just as fast as I could. Perhaps needless to say, I was showing off more than a little bit, and all 48 rounds were inside the center mass scoring ring. The instructor walked down the line, checking targets at the end---passed by, and just shook his head.
I figured I passed---never mind my neighbors fussed about the noise I made.
Ralph Tremaine
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sigp220.45
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I agree, but the newschoolers and the synthetic handgun followers are here to stay and their guns apparently work well, even if they fall way short on looks.
Sadly if you are carrying concealed that extra weight of the 49 in your pocket over the "plastic" .380 is all for naught. No one will be able to see how cool you are.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
But I would know………
As you requested, there are plenty of opinions and good food for thought in response to your post. I'd like to turn it back to you and ask what your objective is by making the change. I assume you're looking for a "bigger bang" than the .380 offers. You've acknowledged the compromise it requires. Granted you have two guns available, but is it worth looking at a third solution? One that offers more "bang" but with a different set of compromises.
smoothshooter
Member
Good choice.
Caliber doesn't matter, but a reliable design does. Spending a lot of money on ammo for functionality testing is required with any auto. A box or less of ammo will tell you what you need to know about a revolver.
Ballistically, the .38 is superior in almost every way to a .380 (and I really like .380) and alternately carry both calibers.
With two decent hits, all handgun calibers perform about the same. One-shot stop data is almost worthless.
Any attacker worth shooting once is worth shooting twice.
Caliber doesn't matter, but a reliable design does. Spending a lot of money on ammo for functionality testing is required with any auto. A box or less of ammo will tell you what you need to know about a revolver.
Ballistically, the .38 is superior in almost every way to a .380 (and I really like .380) and alternately carry both calibers.
With two decent hits, all handgun calibers perform about the same. One-shot stop data is almost worthless.
Any attacker worth shooting once is worth shooting twice.
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Both .380 ACP, and standard pressure .38 are both marginal calibers from a terminal ballistics perspective, but that just doesn't matter in about 99% of armed citizen defensive handgun uses.
The important issue is what do you shoot really well? Go with that.
The important issue is what do you shoot really well? Go with that.
My EDC is a Glock Model 43X that I added a steel magazine lock and use 15 round shield magazines. (Agency furnishes 9mm ammo) However my B/U is a S&W Model 642. (modern dude but my old school upbring still likes a "Wheel Gun")
Agreed.
Reliability testing is important.
With a semi auto that normally involves 200 rounds of your intended carry load, with no malfunctions using all the magazines you intend to carry.
.380 ACP pistols in general can be un reliable with hollow points. The Walther PP series and their numerous FEG clones in particular are very hit and miss from model to model, pistol to pistol and from hollow point type to hollow point type.
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With a revolver the main concerns are:
- light strikes (especially with a lighter hammer springs to reduce the DA trigger pull); and
- the bullet backing out of the case under recoil. If it gets out in front of the cylinder it will lock the revolver cylinder. I'll test for this by leaving a round in the cylinder for 12 or so shots and ensuring it's OAL doesn't increase and repeat it with 3-4 different rounds.
Another concern is large unburnt powder grains that can get under the ejector star abs prevent a reload, but that's more of a concern with colloidal ball powders used in .357, .41 and .44 magnum loads.
Timing can also be an issue in DA fire, as the cylinder can stop during a slow DA pull.
However as noted above a box of ammo is generally enough to verify that none of those issues are present.
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From a terminal ballistics perspective, many of the shorter barrel .380 ACP pistols will not generate enough velocity to get consistent expansion and adequate penetration with many hollow points. Many shooters just opt to use FMJs, although .380 ACP hollow points and loads have improved to the point that good hollow point performance is possible, provided tou you match the hollow point to the gun and the velocity it generates. .380 ACP hollow points have very narrow velocity envelopes where they perform well and can meet FBI standards for expansion and penetration.
The Hornady 90 gr XTP performs well, but only if you can get 1000-1050 fps out of the pistol. That's very tough to achieve in a 2.85" barrel but is much more obtainable in a 3.5"-4.0" barrel.
90 gr Sig V-crowns will expand well around 850-900 fps and give 12"-13" penetration but will under penetrate at higher velocities.
90 gr Hornady critical defense also gives 12"-13" penetration at around 900 fps but will also under penetrate in a longer barrel at higher velocities.
All the federal, Remington and PMC loads I have gel tested failed to consistently expand and over penetrated.
Now…that's not all bad as while for example the 102 gr Golden Sabers might only expand 40% of the time, you get good performance when they do expand, and they perform like an FMJ with plenty of penetration when they don't.
The 90 gr Speer Gold Dots, 85 gr Win silver tips, 95 gr MagTech, Winchester 95 gr PDX 1 and the Win train and defend loads all consistently expand well but under penetrate. I can live with 11" from a gold dot, but 8" from the MagTech or train and defend loads are just not acceptable to me and FMJ is a better choice than those under penetrating loads.
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If you hand load you have a lot more control over velocity but you definitely need a chronograph and I'm personally only comfortable with a load after I have gel tested the load in my carry gun(s). Not many folks are willing to invest tiphe time or money into gel testing.
Hollow point bullet options are limited to the Hornady XTP, Sig V-crown, and Speer Gold Dot plus various old tech bulk rounds that perform like FMJs.
Berrys and Xtreme both make hybrid hollow points designed to expand for self defense purposes. So far I have not been impressed with the Berry's bullets as they over expand ans or fragment and under penetrate. However I've gotten much better results from the Xtreme bphollow points in .380, 9mm and ,45 ACP. The velocity envelopes are very narrow, it within their envelops performance is superb and they are very cost effective.
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.38 Special can have similar terminal performance issues. However I've gotten good results in 2-3" barrels with 125 gr Remington Golden Sabers (particularly the +P loads), and the Winchester 130 gr gr +P loads.
The 110 gr Hornady Critical Defense does well in a 2-3" barrel but the 90 gr lite loads consistently under penetrate.
J Frame
Sorry to stray a little, but I just picked up a 632 UC in .32 mag. 6 shots and .32 mag fills the stat sheet. Ammo is a little pricey and sometimes out of stock, but I just make sure I have 6 rounds on hand until I can restock.
It does everything a .38 can do, gives you a little extra capacity and .380 isn't even close in terms of ballistics.
Sorry to stray a little, but I just picked up a 632 UC in .32 mag. 6 shots and .32 mag fills the stat sheet. Ammo is a little pricey and sometimes out of stock, but I just make sure I have 6 rounds on hand until I can restock.
It does everything a .38 can do, gives you a little extra capacity and .380 isn't even close in terms of ballistics.
Three decades OTJ. two decades retired. All carrying a J frame. While I carry a 442 a 340 PD is even lighter. Yeah, I own a G42 but I would much rather have the J frame for the day evil comes.
Why? Hotter +P load and I know if I pull the trigger five times, it will shoot five times. Dependability is #1 in my book.
Every auto I've ever had has had a problem of some sort at one time or another. Trust is one thing, so is training and comfort with your weapon. Eighteen years academy FA instructor most with autos. Yet for me a J frame is my happy place. It fits my hand, wrist and arm like it grew there. It does what I require. YMMV and that's OK too. Find what works and stick with it. Nobody else's opinion matters, just your comfort zone.
Why? Hotter +P load and I know if I pull the trigger five times, it will shoot five times. Dependability is #1 in my book.
Every auto I've ever had has had a problem of some sort at one time or another. Trust is one thing, so is training and comfort with your weapon. Eighteen years academy FA instructor most with autos. Yet for me a J frame is my happy place. It fits my hand, wrist and arm like it grew there. It does what I require. YMMV and that's OK too. Find what works and stick with it. Nobody else's opinion matters, just your comfort zone.
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Yes, that's what's important, not someone else's opinion as to what you should do.
In the discussion between caliber and shot placement, shot placement is paramount ….more rounds in the mags gives you more chances at shot placement…….
dbracin
Member
A handgun is just a tool. How many different screw drivers do you have? As long as you can hit what you shoot at and it functions 100%, carry what works for you. I find that certain attire requires me to carry smaller lighter and other attire allows for IWB of a full size. YMMV
Welcome to the Model 49 club. Rescued mine from the used gun case at my LGS some years back. Capacity? Starting to hear the same refrain about single stack autos. You're not going to walk into a John Wick scenario every time you leave the house, despite what the "operators" say on their You Tube channels. Take stock in where you go and what you do. In most cases, the old humpback will be enough.
Maybe it is just me, but I can shoot this Beretta a whole lot better than the S&W. It holds a lot more rounds, too.
In general reliability with .380 ACP pistols can be spotty, particularly with hollow points.
There are however two .380 pistols that I have found to be 100% reliable with hollow points and also have long enough barrels to ensure consistent expansion and penetration with selected loads.
The Beretta 80X is one and the 13 round magazine is a plus. The DA trigger is also superb, exceptionally smooth and comparatively light by most DA/SA pistol standards.
The Browning Black Label 1911 .380 is the other. Unlike some .380 ACP mini 1911s it has a delayed recoil operating system, that improves reliability and reduces felt recoil. It's also a very well designed and well made pistol intended for self defense use.
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