.380 Self-Defense Ammo

[Scorpion520AZ]

Though not scientific by any means, I always find the "Meat Target" to be an interesting and enlightening "addition" to gel block testing. That .380 HST came away from the Meat Target looking awfully good.

.380 vs The Meat Target

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVfStJS5XQw[/ame]

 

[686-380]

I like to do my own tests. FWIW:

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BsrEp9PVEf8[/ame]

 

[BC38]

I like the way he constructs his meat target. Seems like a reasonable analog for testing.

I also liked the looks of the results he got with the HTX rounds.

I may have to pick up a box of those for when I need to pocket carry one of my little 380 autos.

 

[Doug M.]

There is one round approved by LAPD for the .380, IIRC. My memory of what is fails, but I am sure the google will help you. Failing that, ball is the recommendation from Dr. Roberts, who is by far the leading authority on the issue. I bought some ball to test the G42 that I am giving my wife, and will use it and some Black Hills Honey Badger (about which I did inquire of Gary) to work forward. I have been pretty busy lately, and haven't talked to Gary in a while other than about a friend's medical issue.

 

[swsig]

Just to pile on more data, here's a summary of ShootingTheBull's famous .380 self-defense ammo tests:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDts[/ame]

 

[Rpg]

Folks trying to make the 380 something it’s not makes great reading and debate fodder.

Unfortunately, it misses the point: reliability and penetration are the most important features in 380, 32 or 22 sd ammo.

Ball ammo is the preferred ammo.

 

[Old cop]

I sometimes carry an LCP and it’s loaded w/Federal HST 90 grain HP. It looks like about the best you can hope for given the shortcomings of this pistol and caliber.

 

[Echo40]

Personally, I carry a Smith & Wesson manufactured Walther PPK/S loaded with Hornady American Gunner XTPs.

Based on what I've seen, the XTP bullet design is the best all around performer when it comes to JHPs in .380 ACP due to its ability to consistently expand while penetrating 12" in Ballistics Gel. Say what you will about Ballistics Gel tests, but the fact that XTPs can reach 12" with uniform expansion while other bullets will either expand but only reach around 8" or fail to expand and overpenetrate still says something in regards to its overall performance.

I know that some folks insist that FMJ is the only way to go when it comes to .380 ACP, but I cannot in good conscience use bullets which are all but guaranteed to cause collateral damage of some kind due to overpenetration. Sure, maybe the .380 ACP will dump enough energy into the target that the bullet will deal minimal damage to anyone/anything behind it, but that's not a chance that I'm willing to take.

Personally, I feel that the .380 ACP is underrated/underestimated as a self-defense cartridge. It's roughly equivalent to standard pressure .38 Special, (which many folks carry) yet for some reason it is rated much lower.
Furthermore, many folks are practically in love with the 9mm Luger cartridge, often touting it as the ideal self-defense cartridge, yet if you compare two similar pistols chambered in .380 ACP and 9mm Luger side-by-side like the SIG P238 and P938, the actual amount of damage (penetration depth, wound channel, etc) dealt to just about everything from Ballistics Gel to animals is extremely similar, in spite of what the large differences in numerical figures like velocity, foot-pounds, and pressure may suggest, ergo while the 9mm Luger is undoubtedly more powerful than .380 ACP, out of short barrels it seems to only beget a marginal improvement, yet folks still ask, "Why carry a .380 when you can carry a nine?"

 

[badge]

For what it's worth, my former agency issued the Remington 102 grain Golden Sabre's for .380's. They seemed to work well although Have no personal experience with them.

 

[Walkingwolf]

My wife, and I train for head shots, in 380 that means a bullet that will smash threw the skull, and not just follow the skin around the skull. Powder coated flat points is what is in our 380's.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Last time I looked around every handgun made for the .380 was a semi-auto. The absolute gold standard is ammo that will reliably feed, fire, extract, eject, etc, 100% of the time in your pistol. Everything else is wishful thinking.

Beyond reliable functioning the next critical consideration is shot placement. Will your ammo reliably shoot to point of aim at reasonable combat ranges (and I'm talking about your high-dollar carry ammo, not what you burn up at the range now and then)? If not you need to re-think your choices.

Way down the list, at least in my book, is the issue of expanding bullets. Maybe they will, maybe they won't (and at .380 velocities that will always be a very big "if"). Relying upon wishful thinking won't win the fight; putting the first (and if needed, the second and third) shot where it needs to be has to be the first consideration.

Best regards.

 

[BC38]

Last time I looked around every handgun made for the .380 was a semi-auto.

Check out the Taurus M380 Ultra Light.
5 shot, 380ACP revolver.
Taurus M380IBULSS Revolver | .380 5 Rounds Matte Stainless Steel

 

[Skeptic 9c]

Folks trying to make the 380 something it’s not ...it misses the point: reliability and penetration are the most important features in 380, 32 or 22 sd ammo.
Ball ammo is the preferred ammo.

But which ball?
380 ACP 90 Grain Xtreme Penetrator – Underwood Ammo

Access Denied

Geoff
Who is back from a long road trip and intends to investigate.

 

[OLDSTER]

Agree with Hornady American Gunner with XTP bullet. It's all I shoot in my BG--100% reliable and great ballistics

 

[Florida J Frame]

Shooting the Bull did a follow-up to the above wrap-up where he said he would choose the Lehigh Defense Extreme Penetrator over the XTP rounds. I'm not a believer in "magic bullets" but this one looks pretty effective. A hard ball with the wound track of a hollow point.

 

[Cal44]

There is one round approved by LAPD for the .380, IIRC. My memory of what is fails, but I am sure the google will help you. Failing that, ball is the recommendation from Dr. Roberts, who is by far the leading authority on the issue. I bought some ball to test the G42 that I am giving my wife, and will use it and some Black Hills Honey Badger (about which I did inquire of Gary) to work forward. I have been pretty busy lately, and haven't talked to Gary in a while other than about a friend's medical issue.

This site shows LAPDs equipment.

Search for 380 and it shows ammo.

Looks like Hornady Critical Defense.

LAPD Equipment - Los Angeles Police Department

 

[Dump1567]

This site shows LAPDs equipment.

Search for 380 and it shows ammo.

Looks like Hornady Critical Defense.

LAPD Equipment - Los Angeles Police Department

This is what Lucky Gunners test revealed as being pretty effective for penetration & expansion when shot through denim.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP

I'm packing the Precision One load (XTP bullet) based on ShootingTheBull's testing.

 

[Echo40]

Shooting the Bull did a follow-up to the above wrap-up where he said he would choose the Lehigh Defense Extreme Penetrator over the XTP rounds. I'm not a believer in "magic bullets" but this one looks pretty effective. A hard ball with the wound track of a hollow point.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, while the Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator, Polycase/Ruger ARX Inceptor, and other such bullets most certainly get impressive results in Ballistics Gel, I personally would hold off on using them until they become more commonplace.
If they are anywhere near as impressive as they appear to be, then it's only a matter of time before they're adopted by Military/Law Enforcement/Intelligence Agencies across the globe, the design is massively copied, JHP ammunition goes into decline, the prices become far more affordable, and any concern over their usage in self-defense becoming a liability in court due to their obscurity is gone.

I own a box of Polycase ARX Inceptors myself, and although I have been tempted to carry them due to their impressive results in Ballistics Gel tests and softer recoil, I have concerns about the possibility of having to shoot through barriers which may cause the bullets to break apart.
One of these days I'd like to take them out to the range along with some common types of barriers like an old wooden door, 2x4s, and if I couod get my hands on a car door or windshield that would be great too, just to see how they would perform.

 

[Lostaro]

Agree with the Hornady XTP shooters...great ammo. 100% reliable in my LCP. Most accurate by far of any I've tried in that gun. It expands well in water jugs (my only test media but with the .380 I'm not really worried with expansion anyway...)

Reliability and accuracy are a must. XTP offers both. If ball ammo shot better groups POA than the XTPs I'd consider them....haven't found any that does.

 

[686-380]

Military won't adopt Lehigh Defense Xtreme

I've said it before and I'll say it again, while the Lehigh Defense Xtreme Penetrator, Polycase/Ruger ARX Inceptor, and other such bullets most certainly get impressive results in Ballistics Gel, I personally would hold off on using them until they become more commonplace.
If they are anywhere near as impressive as they appear to be, then it's only a matter of time before they're adopted by Military/Law Enforcement/Intelligence Agencies across the globe, the design is massively copied, JHP ammunition goes into decline, the prices become far more affordable, and any concern over their usage in self-defense becoming a liability in court due to their obscurity is gone.

I own a box of Polycase ARX Inceptors myself, and although I have been tempted to carry them due to their impressive results in Ballistics Gel tests and softer recoil, I have concerns about the possibility of having to shoot through barriers which may cause the bullets to break apart.
One of these days I'd like to take them out to the range along with some common types of barriers like an old wooden door, 2x4s, and if I couod get my hands on a car door or windshield that would be great too, just to see how they would perform.

I have no idea what law enforcement requires but the Geneva convention doesn't allow for anything but ball ammo IIRC.