If I sold every gun I shot that had a malfunction I wouldn't own any guns
They all malfunction eventually, even if it's because of user error or bad ammunition. Maybe I'm only a 98% shooter 
.380 vs .38spl...
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If I sold every gun I shot that had a malfunction I wouldn't own any guns
They all malfunction eventually, even if it's because of user error or bad ammunition. Maybe I'm only a 98% shooter bowzette
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I have taken a number of classes from Karl Rheems, KR Training. He stated the best you can expect to shoot in a SD situation is 70% of a "bad day" of training shooting. Tom Givens has taught a few of his classes and maybe this came from Givens-don't know. But not a good situation which gets much worse with multiple BGs. Trying to take on just two BGs shooting 70% of a "bad day" is the downside of having just 5 rds. The new Kimber and Colt increase the capacity by one rounds which is close to a 20% increase. I find myself carrying a Glock 26 more frequently-11 rds of 9mm.
Walkingwolf
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I am the odd ball here~~I feel no need to justify, nor do I want validation for what I carry. That is it, if it puts some ammo fanboy into a tail spin it is not my fault.
That was actually something Colt used in their advertising back in the days of the DS .38 Spl snub, meaning that their 6-shot gun had 20% held ammunition than another maker's 5-shot snub.
Do you remember that, or just did the math?
I get your meaning.
The older I get, the less interested I am in what anyone else may think about my preferences or practices. (And I had very little interest in the first place, even when I was a young man.
)Even back before I retired, I was losing interest almost hourly regarding what different folks thought about guns/ammo they carried - and what they told me they thought about what I carried.
We all have to face the potential consequences of our choices and decisions, which is as it should be, right?
With the ability to decide and choose comes the responsibility of shouldering the burden of our choices and actions.
Nobody else has their feet in our shoes, after all.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
What I want to know is why this thread is going on for two pages and several days while my 9mm vs .45 thread got locked down after 4-5 posts 
.380 vs .38 spl can't be any more beat to death than 9mm vs .45
.380 vs .38 spl can't be any more beat to death than 9mm vs .45 
TomkinsSP
Member
If I sold every gun I shot that had a malfunction I wouldn't own any guns
Funny, I have a safe full of non-malfunctioning guns. They all seem to be J or K frames.
TomkinsSP
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What I want to know is why this thread is going on for two pages and several days while my 9mm vs .45 thread got locked down after 4-5 posts
Now you've done it. Place your bets in the secret 'locked at' poll.
American1776
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I find that the micro compacts 380's are not as reliable as the 5 shot snub. Even though auto pistols in general are very reliable today, I just get a funny feeling of 'concern' when I go smaller than a Beretta 85 .380.
If I need a pocket sized gun, I'm going for my 649 all steel J frame loaded with magnums. Small enough for pocket, plenty of power, and ultra reliable. If I need to reload, then I should have carried my 1911 or Beretta 96a1.
The pocket gun is a real compromise, and has very real limitations. It's better than going unarmed, but it really is an arms length, 5-6 shots only deal.
If I need a pocket sized gun, I'm going for my 649 all steel J frame loaded with magnums. Small enough for pocket, plenty of power, and ultra reliable. If I need to reload, then I should have carried my 1911 or Beretta 96a1.
The pocket gun is a real compromise, and has very real limitations. It's better than going unarmed, but it really is an arms length, 5-6 shots only deal.
CowboyKen
Member
What I want to know is why this thread is going on for two pages and several days while my 9mm vs .45 thread got locked down after 4-5 posts
Oh come on!
Everyone knows that there is no doubt about 9 v. 45. Totally obvious.
Why would you even think to bring it up?
Ken
forrestinmathews
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I carry a .22 Short. I also practice regularly and have marksmanship skills. You can pretty much change that first sentence to any gun as long as the second one remains the same.
mrmike7189
Member
No one sees my concealed carry weapon because it is concealed!
Dont ask..dont tell policy!
otasan56
US Veteran
I'd use the .38 Special 125gr JHP +p in a snubbly. Hits far harder than a .380.
RGVshooter
Member
But if you really watch those videos you'll see that if there is a armed citizen in there & he/she starts shooting, the bad guys start running. it's amazing how fast people can move when motivated by bullets flying in their direction. But most citizen involved shootings are settled with 5 shots or less. You Tube is full of home security/store security camera footage showing just that. Those videos also show many times that after the bad guy/s run, the armed citizen continues shooting. One video shows a home invasion where 3-4 rounds were fired, bad guys runs out the door and the home owner perusing the bad guys onto the front lawn continuing to pop off more rounds.... Is having a gun with 6+ rounds better? This is where shot placement/practice comes into play.. Remember guys, if you pop off more rounds than necessary, the thinner the line becomes between legal self defense and liability.
There is no one right gun out there, there is only what's right for you, for your situation, your pocketbook, only you can decide no one else.
bowzette
Member
My name is Mike and I'm a revolverholic. There i admitted it. Got it off my chest and feeling better already. Among the wheelies is a Ruger LCR .22lr that's a great training gun and a lot of fun to shoot. I shoot it pretty well. Not my first choice for serious gunning but I would not be uncomfortable having to use it if needed. The mere sight of a gun may be sufficient and if not once it starts barking folks are going to take it serious. No one is going to analysis the size of the chambers as being "small" or the amount of the "bang"-it's rather loud anyway. If Mr. BG can still run he may do so. Out to 10 yds maybe 15 I'm going to get 3-4 hits center mass using the 70% of "bad day" example. On a good day with Mr. Bad Paper not shooting back all eight rounds are center mass at 25 yds. These comments are not advocating .22 for SD. I know the arguments and small amount of energy it produces. But people aren't bears and most just don't want to get shot. And center mass with a 22lr 40gr HV with multiple hits I suspect will be sufficient. There-the final word on "Caliber War Debate" Of course my model 65 is loaded with BB .38+P 158gr LSWCHP producint 460 ft lbs of energy from a 3" barrel and the LCR .357 is loaded with Speers GD 135gr .357 at 300 ft lbs out of a 2" barrel. Who needs a .22lr
Of course my model 65 is loaded with BB .38+P 158gr LSWCHP producint 460 ft lbs of energy from a 3" barrel and the LCR .357 is loaded with Speers GD 135gr .357 at 300 ft lbs out of a 2" barrel. Who needs a .22lr
TomkinsSP
Member
JMO fellow 'spinner': Aguila 60 grain SSS in .22LR, short barrels are not going to maximize high or hyper vel performance. No matter how you slice it 60 grains is 60 grains. They tumble upon entry, just make sure your gun stabilizes them through air (they work fine in my 8 and 9 shot .22s). And I would go for CNS hits.
Oh, and to really get a mouse caliber debate going, I have a 9 shot .17HM2 with a 1.75" barrel and a 7 shot .17HMR sporting a 1.875" tube. The question being using identical 17 grain FTX bullets, is the 200 fps advantage of HMR (ca. 1650 v 1450)worth giving up two shots?
Oh, and to really get a mouse caliber debate going, I have a 9 shot .17HM2 with a 1.75" barrel and a 7 shot .17HMR sporting a 1.875" tube. The question being using identical 17 grain FTX bullets, is the 200 fps advantage of HMR (ca. 1650 v 1450)worth giving up two shots?
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Walkingwolf
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My name is Mike and I'm a revolverholic. There i admitted it. Got it off my chest and feeling better already. Among the wheelies is a Ruger LCR .22lr that's a great training gun and a lot of fun to shoot. I shoot it pretty well. Not my first choice for serious gunning but I would not be uncomfortable having to use it if needed. The mere sight of a gun may be sufficient and if not once it starts barking folks are going to take it serious. No one is going to analysis the size of the chambers as being "small" or the amount of the "bang"-it's rather loud anyway. If Mr. BG can still run he may do so. Out to 10 yds maybe 15 I'm going to get 3-4 hits center mass using the 70% of "bad day" example. On a good day with Mr. Bad Paper not shooting back all eight rounds are center mass at 25 yds. These comments are not advocating .22 for SD. I know the arguments and small amount of energy it produces. But people aren't bears and most just don't want to get shot. And center mass with a 22lr 40gr HV with multiple hits I suspect will be sufficient. There-the final word on "Caliber War Debate"
There have been numerous cases of successful stops with 22lr. I am more than comfortable to carry a NAA for a backup. And at home it is always in my pocket, or around my neck.
KSDeputy
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I carry a .45, and usually carry a knife rather than a BUG. I have carried a PPK along with the issued 4506, at times. Depends on if I know what the next days assignment will be. I really favor the Gerber boot knife, over another firearm.
bowzette
Member
I've been intending to get several boxes of the Aguilla SSS 60gr. It will start tumbling as soon as it leaves the barrel. And as stated it is 60gr! Now don't turn me in to the Glocktalk forum or I'll be banned for "revolverism"
TomkinsSP
Member
I've been intending to get several boxes of the Aguilla SSS 60gr. It will start tumbling as soon as it leaves the barrel. And as stated it is 60gr! Now don't turn me in to the Glocktalk forum or I'll be banned for "revolverism"
The SSS stabilizes fine to 50 feet or so in my M94 and Pathfinder, it also stabilizes in air out of a freind's LCR. (All three 2"bbls) It tumbles at less than 25 feet out of my kitgun (3" bbl) and a SA LR/mag convertable (5" bbl), I like the idea of tumbling AFTER it hits, not before.
Get a Nitride finish Pitbull, it will fit right in with the G****s (same diet, same look).
60 grains? Okay, this underweight bullet thing has gone too far. Sectional density is a real thing that exists: mass over cross-section, which allows an object to overcome resistance. In bullet-speak, we call that "penetrate". Go shoot a penny into ballistic gel and see how far it goes. Tip: not far, even if you shoot it really really fast.
But somewhere along the way, we lost our minds and decided that 90-grain 9mms and 78-grain .45 ACPs (I swear I wish I was making that up) were totally acceptable things to use.
Now this is the part where somebody blasts me about how great their 45-grain fused zintherium crystal .45s are, and how pretty they look when you shoot them into Jello bricks. And that's 'kay, this is America, you're allowed to waste your money on dopey stuff.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6FYr0N3xt8[/ame]
But somewhere along the way, we lost our minds and decided that 90-grain 9mms and 78-grain .45 ACPs (I swear I wish I was making that up) were totally acceptable things to use.
Now this is the part where somebody blasts me about how great their 45-grain fused zintherium crystal .45s are, and how pretty they look when you shoot them into Jello bricks. And that's 'kay, this is America, you're allowed to waste your money on dopey stuff.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6FYr0N3xt8[/ame]
TomkinsSP
Member
bowzette was talking about .22LR. The 60 grain Aguila SSS is a 60 grain .22LR. Massive momentum, long, good SD, barely stable to barely unstable depending on the gun (rifling?) as said my T****s is fine with it my Smith not so much.
I too think the tiny light ultra-accelerators and ultra-decelerators are funny. That's why I carry 148 to 160 grain bullets.
I too think the tiny light ultra-accelerators and ultra-decelerators are funny. That's why I carry 148 to 160 grain bullets.
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RGVshooter
Member
For a different post but.....
New for 2018 NAA introduced a new 22 WMR break top revolver! It's called "Ranger 2".
Yeah, I was looking at it again. I think what happened was, I've been awake for far too long and read ".380" in the title, combined it with "60-grain" in the post, and baked a nice rage soufflé. But such is my blind hatred of the nouveau lightweight bullets.
Aguila SSS is actually a super fat-assed .22 designed for subsonic pest control with bolt-action rifles. Literally, it's sort of the opposite of what I'm pissing and moaning about (NEW FOR 2018 AT SHOT SHOW: 5-GRAIN 9mm HPs MADE FROM GENUINE ANGEL HAIR, 7500 FPS!!!!). I hear it's been discontinued.
I dunno how I feel about .22s. On the one hand, carry what you're going to carry and practice with, and all that. Plenty of little old grandmas with arthritis who, in my estimation, could take their Ruger SR-22s and murderzone some of the .40/.367Sig/9mm/.45ACP IDPA rats I know. On the other, for most people, is a shootable .38, .380, or 9 really much harder to manage?
As to bullet weight, my 9 works with 124s, so that's what I sling. I should probably try out 147-grain pills at some point, just to satisfy my curiosity. But I'm thinking of a ported or comp'd 9 fungun, and since PF doesn't matter to me, 115s beat the hell out of 147s in theory (more powder in the 115 loads, less bullet weight).
Walkingwolf
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I saw that, it is listed on their web site. While it is neat the quick reload feature is not going to be a quick reload in a get off me fight. Which is what the guns are good for. My next one will probably be the Wasp.
S&WsRsweet
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I like the 38 jframe but my reason is and I know tjis goes against conventional wisdom but ,I like SA/DA capability just if I need to get off a precision shot singl action capability might make th difference oh no oh no yes if tne situation is dire enough I have to pull my firearm and things ate where I have to make one shot and that shot de ides my fate live or die and I only get to try one time I am going to try to control my breathing concentrate on my sight alignment and get the job done and the very bet way to do that for me would be having a nice crisp trigger pull in single action to use. So my vote is jframe but with SA/ da capability .
TomkinsSP
Member
My lovely wife carries a M49.
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
I definitely prefer not to go below .38 Special +P for a defensive handgun (the only kind I've owned for years). I've only owned all-steel revolvers for around twenty years.
But having been weakened a good deal by illness in the last year, I thought I might try a lighter carry gun. I bought a Ruger LCP, then found that my arthritic hands made it virtually impossible to rack the tiny slide. I considered the risk of a malfunction requiring racking it, and am selling the little gnatweight and sticking with the J-frame I've carried for years.
I'm happier with the venerable and tested FBI load, or its standard pressure Buffalo Bore equivalent, anyway; but I liked the feel and trigger of the tiny LCP.
But having been weakened a good deal by illness in the last year, I thought I might try a lighter carry gun. I bought a Ruger LCP, then found that my arthritic hands made it virtually impossible to rack the tiny slide. I considered the risk of a malfunction requiring racking it, and am selling the little gnatweight and sticking with the J-frame I've carried for years.
I'm happier with the venerable and tested FBI load, or its standard pressure Buffalo Bore equivalent, anyway; but I liked the feel and trigger of the tiny LCP.
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New Shield .380
A lot of the above post will be upended with the introduction (announced today) of the Shield EZ 380.
Claims are that it is easier to rack the slide, better capacity, easier to reload,more comfortable to shoot, relieves anxiety in those that want a manual safety, it has a grip safety. The trigger is supposed to vastly improved too.
Looks interesting for those that don't think a .380 needs to be tiny.
A lot of the above post will be upended with the introduction (announced today) of the Shield EZ 380.
Claims are that it is easier to rack the slide, better capacity, easier to reload,more comfortable to shoot, relieves anxiety in those that want a manual safety, it has a grip safety. The trigger is supposed to vastly improved too.
Looks interesting for those that don't think a .380 needs to be tiny.
