.38sp/200 in a snubby?

[arizonaguide]

I was doing some reading on the old .38S&W/200grain round, and read that it was the ONLY medium caliber to rate as effective as the LARGE caliber pistol rounds in the 1904 tests that led to the later adoption of the .45acp.

So, I got wondering if anyone had done any work on a .38special/200, and if so...was it possible to get the volocity up from a 2" barrel to over 650fps+ (without overpressuring the standard .38special pressures).

If they could do it with a .38S&W/200 in 1904...why can't it be done with today's .38specials? (even if at least in a longer barrel)

 

[stiab]

Do a search of this topic over on the Ammo forum, several recent threads there with actual testing info.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
In the distance past (1960s) there was a factory .38spl round w/ 200gr bullet.
We used this round in our 2" "Off Duties". It was no more than a standard .38spl round with a 200gr bullet instead of a 158gr LRN.
Jimmy

 

[arizonaguide]

Thank you, folks!

I will search over in the ammo threads, also.

The stuff I heard about the 1904 test was secondhand reading on another site. So, it could be inaccurate. I also have been reading on the British use of it up to and including WW2. If nothing else...it peaked my curiousity enough to start getting interested...and see if it was available in the .38special.

 

[arizonaguide]

Hi:
In the distance past (1960s) there was a factory .38spl round w/ 200gr bullet. We used this round in our 2" "Off Duties". It was no more than a standard .38spl round with a 200gr bullet instead of a 158gr LRN.
Jimmy

Yes, that's what I'd be interested in.

 

[David Sinko]

I never used 200 gr. bullets, but I did load the Hornady 180 gr. Silhouette at 870 FPS out of my 2" Model 60-7. That was my first attempt with a starting load. If I could find a good 200 gr. bullet, I'd be tempted to give it a try.

Dave Sinko

 

[balldboy]

Hi:
In the distance past (1960s) there was a factory .38spl round w/ 200gr bullet.
We used this round in our 2" "Off Duties". It was no more than a standard .38spl round with a 200gr bullet instead of a 158gr LRN.
Jimmy

In 1983 I bought a Nickel 3" Colt Det. Spec. from a retired Newark NJ detective.

It came with an in the pants holster, a baskeweave dress holster and a sealed box of Rem. (IIRC) factory 200 gr. round nose ammo.

He had to qualify with the Colt as the standard issue was a Chief Spec.

Foolishly, all of the above found new homes when I big eyes and a small wallet...

Pete

 

[SuperMan]

I am betting that the original 200 grain "Super Police" rounds were going no more than 650 fps from a 2" revolver.

That slow speed combined with a round nose bullet produced very little shock to the system. It would "kill" the intended target but what the intended target did from the time the shot was fired till they succumbed to the effects of the bullet could prove very fatal to the shooter...

There was a reason that the .38 Special was know in LE circles as "The Widow Maker"...and it wasn't the fact that it made BadGuy Widows...

Bob

 

[681ismyfavorite]

if i remember correctly, that 200gr. LRN was the issue round for many agencies way back yon when they carried 4" revolvers. it was supposed to be better at penetrating car doors and such. and as i recall it was labled the widow maker because for those who counted on it working were often killed.

 

[arizonaguide]

That sounds logical.
Good for penetration...not so good for shock value.

However...perhaps a 200gr LSWCHP may be a different story...even at 650fps. I'd sure like to give it a try with modern ballistics testing stuff.
Just to see what it does.

I have a 1911 .45acp and a .38sp 442jframe.
I actually like the feel/accuracy (in MY hand that is) of the Jframe, and wondered if there was a way to make it as effective of a defensive handgun as the 1911 (ballistically). I know shot placement is PRIMARY, but some combination to bring it into the same "ballpark" anyway...and a good 200grLSWHP would be...interesting, anyway.

ps: I know...get a .357.

 

[Pioneer461]

Hi:
In the distance past (1960s) there was a factory .38spl round w/ 200gr bullet.
We used this round in our 2" "Off Duties". It was no more than a standard .38spl round with a 200gr bullet instead of a 158gr LRN. Jimmy

Our department tested some of those in the early 70's and found the bullets would not penetrate automobile body sheet metal. We fired them from 4 & 6 inch revolvers, and with the pathetic results, didn't even try with a snubby.

 

[arizonaguide]

Good info!

 

[Pigirondan]

Blue Bunny Ammo sells a 200 grain .38 Special round.

 

[Dale53]

One of the most effective rounds for the .38 Special snubbie is the FBI load (a +P 158 gr Lead H.P.).

That's what I carry.

FWIW
Dale53

 

[arizonaguide]

That's pretty much what I carry now, with the Buffalo Bore 158LSWCHP's.

Has anyone else tried the Buffalo Bores? Good results? I've heard mixed reports.

 

[arizonaguide]

Blue Bunny Ammo sells a 200 grain .38 Special round.

Yup, I was just reading about those. Thanks PID.

 

[AKAOV1MAN]

I have used Buffalo Bore ammo in a variety of loads and recommend it without reservation. It is particularly good in .380 ACP, and the .38 special short barrel loads. If it were not so expensive, I would use it all the time.
BTW, I did use quite a bit of the Winchester .38 special with the 200 gr round nose back in the mid 60s. It was pretty pitiful ammo. The theory was that if it was Ok for the Brits in the 38 S&W then it should be better in a .38 special. The load was proclaimed to be a "police load" on the box. Out of a 2 inch barrel you could almost watch the round make its way down range. I still have a box of it, the slugs are copper coated and look neat, but thats about it. Some day I will try to clock them out of a carbine and see if they go any faster(one of the guys on our range clocked them at 595 FPS from a 2" Detective Sepcial).

 

[tcc1953]

Relevant or not - I shot bowling pins for a couple of years with a 200 gr. lead RN bullet loaded in .38 Special cases on top of a generous amount of Universal Clays - all fired from an 8-shot Performance Center .357. Overall cartridge length dictated the use of 38 cases - the 200's in a 357 case were too long for the cylinder. Killed pins dead.

 

[Pigirondan]

IIRC, didn't LAPD carry the 200 grain round in their Model 15's?

 

[Pisgah]

I wish I had a better memory, but I recall reading an article in the dim past by someone who fought rebels in Rhodesia decades ago. Seems his issue sidearm was an M&P Victory loaded with the standard British .38 S&W round boasting a 200 gr. bullet. He used it only once in combat, and the bullet was stopped by the heavy overcoat worn by the rebel he shot. Of course, that's only one account by one man, but it makes me pretty sure that I'd want as much velocity as I could get with such a bullet, and I don't know that I'd feel too comfortable with the results out of a short barrel.