.38special self defence ammo for snubbies

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blackpowder

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Hi all around!

Today I decided to get rid of my 18 remaining rounds of SD ammo by blowing them through the barrel of my 1966 Colt DS snubby at the local range.

I purchased them in 1984 and even though cartridges don't have an expiration date I thought it not a bad idea to replace them after 30 years (probably should have kept them as there wasn't a single misfire).

They were the last of a box of winchester silvertip +P, 125gr, HPs, which was a quite common SD load in the eighties. The question now is, what to replace them with? Back in those days the choices were limited to a handful of options. Now I am confronted with 3 dozen different choices of all types and sorts from a multitude of manufacturers. I am told there are even special types of ammo for use in short barrels.

Can anyone recommend something that is up to date and works?

THanks!
 
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Only low pressure load I might trust is the ..........
Hornady " Defense " ammo, not the Duty LE rounds.

I prefer the +P 135 Gold Dot for a top load but some still
like the heavier 158gr Lead HP, "FBI Load" , if you feel ok with these extra power loads in your weapon.

Some that roll their own use the 148 lead wc but I do not feel comfortable with this load but if it was the only load in town, it would have to work, I guess.
 
blackpowder said:
Hi all around!

Today I decided to get rid of my 18 remaining rounds of SD ammo by blowing them through the barrel of my 1966 Colt DS snubby at the local range.

I purchased them in 1984 and even though cartridges don't have an expiration date I thought it not a bad idea to replace them after 30 years (probably should have kept them as there wasn't a single misfire).

They were the last of a box of winchester silvertip +P, 125gr, HPs, which was a quite common SD load in the eighties. The question now is, what to replace them with? Back in those days the choices were limited to a handful of options. Now I am confronted with 3 dozen different choices of all types and sorts from a multitude of manufacturers. I am told there are even special types of ammo for use in short barrels.

Can anyone recommend something that is up to date and works?

THanks!
Click to expand...

You shot them up before having a replacement on hand?

Here are three choices:

If you want to be vintage and use what the FBI used in the "gangster era," then get a box of Buffalo Bore "Outdoorsman" which duplicates the original 38/44 load with semi-wadcutter as specified in the report of the weapons committee to Director Hoover at the time.

If you want something more modern, then get the Speer 38 Special +P short barrel Gold Dot, item number 23921. This was developed for the NYPD, and does very well in 2 to 4 inch barrels.

There is still nothing wrong with Winchester X38SPD, the 158 grain 38 Special +P Lead Hollow Point referred to as the FBI Load, since the FBI used it prior to switching to the 147 grain +P+ load, which I believe was its last 38 Special load prior to switching to semi-autos.
 
My snubs are usually loaded with Speer 135 grain JHPs.
My former load was Cor-Bon .38s with the Barnes copper HP bullet.

I switched to the Speers (mostly) because they are supposed to hit
the same point of aim as 158 grainers. The rounds I practice with most are reloads with lead SWCs.
 
For years I've carried and trusted the Remington version of the FBI load, the 158-grain +P LSWCHP. It has a long and distinguished record of effectiveness (a retired LEO on this forum had to use it twice and can attest that it worked), and of working in two- and four-inch barrels.

Unfortunately the latest Remington loading apparently clocks at lower velocity and less muzzle energy. I like the heavy, soft-lead bullet from a J-frame; so my EDC and K-frame house gun are now loaded with the standard-pressure Buffalo Bore 158-grain LSWCHP-GC--with gas check. It chronographs at virtually identical velocities to the good older Remington load, is safe for any Smith revolver, and offers reduced flash.

If I could find the short-barrel Gold Dot stuff I might try it; but since the sights of most Smith fixed-sight revolvers are regulated for 158-grain projectiles I'm quite happy with the Buffalo Bore stuff.

Their +P version is rated at low-end .357 Magnum velocity, which I no longer shoot due to arthritis. Pretty potent for an alloy-framed gun.
 
I had to use my revolver more than once during my career and it was loaded w/the old style FBI +P, our issued ammo. It just works and I still carry it in my J frame or Colt Cobra. I'm sure there are others that work just as well but I go with what I know.
 
Hello,

Some good choices include the aforementioned Speer GDSB load, Winchester RA38B/PDX1, and Hornady FTX. The old stalwart LSWCHP +P also works well from a snub (Remington's version in particular), although the latest incarnation of it from their HTP line doesn't seem to work as well as the older Express version. If all else fails, there's also the target wadcutter.

Try all of them out and see which one your DS "likes" the most.
 
Not all jhp defense ammo will work any better than a solid bullet out of a snub nose since you loose 100 fps + at the muzzle over a 4" barrel which is what most of the ammo companies test out of. Currently you pretty much have to use what you can find as the ammo selection is often spotty.

For .38 spl snub nose my choice is Speer 135gr Gold Dot short barrel, .38 spl Remington Golden Sabers, Federal Hydrashoks 129gr and any of the 158gr LSWCHP's all in +P.

Speers short barrel load has been hard to find. Remington Golden Sabers and Federal Hydrashoks are probably the easiest to find.

Winchester PDX1 is quite plentiful and easy to find but after watching some of the tests with it from snub nose revolvers on Youtube I'll only use it in 4" or longer revolvers.

Speer Gold Dot .38 Special +P 135 gr Ammo Test - YouTube
.38 Special +P Remington Golden Saber Ammo Gel Test - YouTube
Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158 gr Semiwadcutter Ammo Test - YouTube
Winchester PDX1 Bonded .38 Special +P *** RETEST *** - YouTube
 
I use the Federal 129 grain +p for carry and also shoot 125 grain lead loads for practice. I have also used the Golden Sabers on occasion. I like the lighter bullets in the snubs.
 
Thanks a lot for all the inputs.....I just bought a box of speer's 135gr Gold Dot HP short barrel and will see how they work out of my snubby tomorrow.

I hope I won't be sorry I retired my old
silvertips so ungently.........:D
 

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I think you are going to be disappointed with that modern uber-blasty ammo in that old gun.

If you must shoot that stuff in that gun, at least do it the dignity of getting some 158-grain semi-wadcutters (standard velocity), and seeing which ones you shoot best.

If you shoot the bad guy between the shirt-pockets with either load, it won't matter which one it is.

Similarly, if you shoot the bad guy elsewhere than between the shirt-pockets with that gun, it also won't matter which load you used.

For defensive work, I'm for using the ammo around which the gun was designed.
Your 1966 snubnose was not designed around anything uber-blasty.
 
W.E.G. said:
I think you are going to be disappointed with that modern uber-blasty ammo in that old gun.
Click to expand...

Ok, just put 12 rds of my new speer gold dot short barrel through my DS and found little or no difference in how the gun behaved compared to shooting the old silvertips. The speers seemed to impact just a bit higher than the silvertips but this can easily be compensated for. I had no way of telling, however, how the bullets behaved after impact.

As for the old gun (which is +P rated and never failed me) I have only one thing to say: What was good enough for Telly "Kojak" Savalas is good enough for me! :D
 
You don't see it much anymore, but I have stuck away somewhere a couple of boxes of the old Federal 125 gr. 'Nyclad' HP's. They are standard (non+P) and at one time the going wisdom was that they made good snubby SD ammo.
I've never tried or tested them.
 
I shot some Nyclads out of my Chief's Special.

Worst accuracy I ever witnessed.

It was as though the polymer coating was just "stripping" through the rifling, and no spin being imparted on the bullet. To shoot the bad guy between the shirt pockets with that stuff, you'd need to be close enough to unbutton his shirt first.
 
I use the lead SWC-HP in .38 Special, .44 Special and .45 Colt; if they expand fine, if they don't the SWC shape will help impart the slugs energy into the target and afford ample penetration. I've seen and done bullet expansion testing, but out of a 2-3" barrel, I don't count on it. My mantra is shot placement...shot placement...shot placement...
 
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Carrying Remington UD (aka Golden Saber) 125gr BJHP .38spl+P in my 642 as of now. Appears to be a great round for a short barrel, with excellent and reliable expansion. I'm sticking with this until I'm convinced there's something else as good or better for less money.
 
It pays to try out all the 38 ammo out there in a snub nose.
You NEVER can tell where it will hit the target and how well
it will group.

Last year I was testing some loads over my chrony and was
surprised at where the bullets struck on the target.

Here is a picture of an outing and a reload with Trail Boss
with a 158 LRN that I use for target practice, since it way slow.
No way can it be used for SD.

vc7ti.jpg
 
I carry 148gn lead wadcutters loaded to 840+/- in my old 3" M37. My wife carries Critical Defense in her Ruger LCR. So there you have both extremes in the same house.
 
Shooting a 37 airweight with a combination of hornady critical defense and buffalo bore 150 hardcast wadcutters. Wanted to stay away from +p and combine expansion and penetration with the two. My best modification was removing the old wood grips and replacing with pachmyr.
 
My long time load is the Federal 38G, 158gr LSWCHP +P. At 890fps at the muzzle I don't believe it will hazard the owner of any .38 revolver regardless of what material the frame is made from.

For me it tends to shoot to or near to POA in my fixed sight J and K frames (don't recall if I've tried it in my 38/44 HD) I don't find the recoil to be of any consequence.
 
Don't overlook the fact that ammo is in short supply and sometimes these recommendations are based on what they could get. Speer 135 grain short barrel is a great round in both 38 spec and 357 mag. It is optimized for 2" - 3" barrels. But it is really hard to find, especially in 50 rd boxes which is only sold by LEO suppliers. The 20 rd boxes are easier to find but tend to cost nearly as much as the 50 rd. The only supplier I've found who has it a couple times a year is SGA ammo in Oklahoma. The last time they had it a couple of months ago it was $28.50/box of 50 in case lots of 20 boxes or more for .38spec. The last I bought was .357 and it was $29.50/box of 50, last month. Good luck.
 
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