39/59 carry

[petepeterson]

Does anyone here carry a Model 39 or 59? I have a 59 suitable for carry (i.e.- definitely not a safe queen!), and it's a good bit lighter than my 5906. I also prefer the dark finish.

I'm just curious if there's any safety or reliability issues involved with CCWing a 1st gen auto. I know it varies from pistol to pistol, and mine has been reliable so far, but I only have around 150 through it. Or should I just stick with the 5906? I don't carry a hi-cap often, but it's a nice option to have in the winter.

 

[sheepdawg]

Every now and then on a whim I carry a 639. It does help to tone and build up your muscles.

 

[Engine49guy]

IIRC the 39/59 as well as the Walther P38 achilles heel is in the safety decock system and reports of accidental discharges have been reported, In extreme cases of worn examples simply decocking the gun on a live round can result in an AD.

The 2nd generation of S&W semi autos addressed this as did the next generation of Walthers in the P-4 and P-5 series which will not fire unless the trigger is fully pulled back.

 

[petepeterson]

IIRC the 39/59 as well as the Walther P38 achilles heel is in the safety decock system and reports of accidental discharges have been reported, In extreme cases of worn examples simply decocking the gun on a live round can result in an AD.

The 2nd generation of S&W semi autos addressed this as did the next generation of Walthers in the P-4 and P-5 series which will not fire unless the trigger is fully pulled back.

Thank you. Would racking the slide with the de-cock lever down help with this, or same result?

 

[BAM-BAM]

IIRC the 39/59 as well as the Walther P38 achilles heel is in the safety decock system and reports of accidental discharges have been reported, In extreme cases of worn examples simply decocking the gun on a live round can result in an AD.

The 2nd generation of S&W semi autos addressed this as did the next generation of Walthers in the P-4 and P-5 series which will not fire unless the trigger is fully pulled back.

WOW...never heard that..........

Bought and sold 3 or 4 39s over the years....I've tried a couple of times to carry a 39-2......by day 3 I'm asking myself why when I have a 3913/14 .......same # of rounds in a smaller... but not too small.....package.....

PeteP..... sounds like you need a 915......

 

[suckersrus]

I carried a model 59 for many years in Alaska starting about 1975.
It is now resting. But it is ready if the call should come.

 

[4330Inroute]

First I've heard of A/D's in either a 39 or 59 from the safety decocker. I carried both on and off duty for several years without any incidents. All the ones I know about (accidental discharges) were operator caused. These handguns are built for use and are not fragile so long you don't abuse them. With good magazines I'd carry a 59 anywhere with confidence.
Shoot it and build up your confidence. 14 rds. of 9mm is not something to look down your nose at.

 

[flagman1776]

I carried my M39-2 on duty... it does not have a firing pin lock (neither does an original M1911) and can under certain circumstances fire if dropped on the muzzle. Badly worn or M39s with broken parts have been known to fire when the decocker is used.
When I carried M39-2, it was in the line of duty & I carried it hammer down with safety off as it was originally intended. There were later advises to carry it hammer down with safe on... which I chose not to because it rather defeated the self-defense purpose of a DA semiauto.

I always decock in a safe direction with any Decocker / Hammer drop gun. Pointing a gun at an innocent is totally abhorent to me, no matter the condition of the piece.

My view to safety is a multi-layer approach... the safety built into the piece, the safety in holster design (covered trigger guard & retention), gun handling (finger off trigger until on target, safe muzzle direction).

 

[shotgun693]

I carry either a M59 or a 5904. I think they are great carry guns. When I use the decocker, I catch the hammer with my left hand while lowering the hammer with my right hand thumb. I have heard, never experienced, that the actual block piece on the decocker can get brittle and fail after years of use. I figure why risk it. If I was in a situation, maybe a shooting, and MUST use the decocker then I can because I have babied it the rest of the time.

 

[petepeterson]

WOW...never heard that..........

Bought and sold 3 or 4 39s over the years....I've tried a couple of times to carry a 39-2......by day 3 I'm asking myself why when I have a 3913/14 .......same # of rounds in a smaller... but not too small.....package.....

PeteP..... sounds like you need a 915......

It's not so much "need", but a 5903 or 915 would be ideal. I couldn't pass up the deal on the 59, though. It's more of a debate between the 5906 and 59. Actually, it's more of a problem I'm creating in my head due to having too many choices. Great problem to have!

 

[kaveman]

2nd and 3rd gens have the firing pin safety or 'lock' that prevents the firing pin from driving forward unless the trigger is held fully to the rear. 1st gens don't have that so the firing pin is held back by nothing more than the firing pin spring. Anything that can overcome the force of that spring and still have enough 'oomph' to indent the primer can fire the gun.

The two things that might allow that to happen are dropping the gun directly on the muzzle or having severely worn or broken parts in the safety/decock system. A long firing pin could also cause a discharge but you'd probably find out about that the first time you decocked the gun and firing pins don't often stretch over time,...........so if you're good now you'll stay good. I suppose you could try decocking several times on a round(preferably a primed empty)to see if you're getting any primer dimpling just to be sure.

By modern standards, unsafe. I doubt any agency would authorize the use of a 1st gen, but I still live in a house with ungrounded outlets and if I were to ever ride a bicycle again I probably wouldn't bother with a helmet so I suppose even safety is relative.

FWIW, I'd feel safer carrying a 1st gen than I would a Glock and that's not meant to slam the Glock.

 

[Engine49guy]

Thank you. Would racking the slide with the de-cock lever down help with this, or same result?

The following is all just my opinion so do some due diligence and carry at your own risk.

IMO the only 100% safe way to carry a 1st gen auto is with an empty chamber.

If you must chamber a round the next safest way to carry it is by decocking the gun while easing the hammer down with your thumb with safety engaged, This way if your safety lever or firing pin cam slot is worn it will not have an AD from decocking the gun,
to fire the weapon draw from holster raise safety lever with thumb and pull trigger.

S&W 1st gens and Walther P38 safety's have a cam cut into the safety lever that when rotated down captures the firing pin in a recessed slot that also covers the firing pins face preventing the hammer from contacting it as well as preventing an inertia AD from being dropped on the muzzle etc by limiting firing pin travel.

The weak link here is the firing pin and stories of well worn Walther P-38's that saw extensive use on the Russian front began to exhibit the decock AD when their worn firing pin no longer was captured in the safety cam recess .

If you absolutely will not carry with the safety lever engaged I would say the 3rd safest way is after chambering a round and lowering the hammer onto the safety raise the safety to the fire position then pull the hammer back to "Half Cock",
This way the hammer face does not rest on the firing pin so if dropped on the hammer spur the blow shouldnt fire the gun unless the half cock notch is sheared away, Dropping a 1st gen on the muzzle with the safety off will allow an inertia AD as the firing pin is not arrested and travel is not limited .
again all just IMO.

 

[ispcapt]

Never carry either with the hammer resting in the half cock notch. That is the worst way to carry one and it was never intended to be carried as such. The 1/2 notch isn't very deep and it's only intended to catch the hammer should it fall from full cock. Anyone who knows guns and has examined the 1/2 notch will see it's not the same as the full cock notch. If the hammer slips from the 1/2 cock position there is usually enough force from the hammer fall to fire. Not good.
I carried my issued 39-nothing for several years on and off duty. Even after we transitioned to the 2nd gen S&W I still carried my 39 quite a bit off duty.
The safest way to carry is empty chamber. However, for defensive use that's not the best way. Carry with the chamber loaded and either the safety engaged or disengaged, your choice. For duty wear I carried with safety off. When working crowds or responding to things like bar fights or family disturbances I'd flick the safety on in case it became a gun grab situation.
I would not use +P+ in either the 39 or 59. They'll take an amount of those loads but the problem these days is getting parts and repairs.

 

[SG-688]

Also to safety:

Any 39/59 can be manipulated to fire without the magazine despite a functioning magazine disconnect.

Some have discovered this inadvertently with the results you would expect.

I love the 39, but it's a fact everyone should know.

 

[nocents]

IIRC the 39/59 as well as the Walther P38 achilles heel is in the safety decock system and reports of accidental discharges have been reported, In extreme cases of worn examples simply decocking the gun on a live round can result in an AD.
.

this is true......I know first hand...except my 39 fired when I racked the slide and the hammer dropped on a round....scared the BE_JESUS out of me.....thankfully it happened on top of a mountain in Cashiers N.C. where no one was within 10 miles of me and my buddy

 

[SVT28]

I actually carry a 39-2 in an Alien Gear IWB 2.0 everyday. I shoot my 39-2 better than all of my other smith semi autos. I still to this day if SHTF would only pick up one pistol, it would be my 39-2, my 14 mags and my alien gear holster. Thousands of rounds of tula, wolf, brown bear, Federal, wwb, everything and not one misfire. 2 years of carrying. No AD.

-SVT28

 

[petepeterson]

this is true......I know first hand...except my 39 fired when I racked the slide and the hammer dropped on a round....scared the BE_JESUS out of me.....thankfully it happened on top of a mountain in Cashiers N.C. where no one was within 10 miles of me and my buddy

I think this one has convinced me to hang onto the 5906 for awhile...looking out for a 5903 or 915!

 

[gunship]

I carried a model 639 for 20 years as my off duty weapon. I fired all kinds of rounds through it and never had one malfunction. Best weapon I ever owned and will always be with me knowing it will do it's job if needed.

 

[petepeterson]

I carried a model 639 for 20 years as my off duty weapon. I fired all kinds of rounds through it and never had one malfunction. Best weapon I ever owned and will always be with me knowing it will do it's job if needed.

Did you carry it chambered, safety off?

 

[shotgun693]

Any safety can fail, any device malfunction. If you do not practice safe gun handling you will one day have a gun fire when you were not ready for it to do so and you will shoot something you did not mean to shoot.