3914 Prototypes

18DAI

18DAI

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I was going through my SCSW reading the 3914 paragraph. It references "...472 guns with TDF serial prefix, TDF0501 - TDF0972 with slight difference in trigger guard area.." as 1989 prototypes of the 3914.

Another reference book I have has a picture of a standard looking early production 3914 with a TDF0001 serial number. The caption on the photo refers to it being a first run production 3914.

So, did S&W mix serial numbers on these early 3914's? Was the TDF0501 - TDF0972 group actually "prototypes" or simply part of the first run of production?

If I have 3914 TDF02XX, what do I have? Other than a fine example of the best single stack 9mm carry gun made by anyone. ;) Production? Or prototype? No box with it to check. Thanks! Regards 18DAI
 
Very interesting. I have a 3914 with TDF03XX and I have written down 9--1989 as when it was manufactured. Your number and mine is lower than the 472 numbers you reference. I'll be watching for further info.
 
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The SWSC is a great resource, but I've found quite a few errors in my limited research. The book may have simply gotten the prototype runs of the 3913 and 3914 mixed up.

Per SWSC:
The 3913 prototype numbers are TDF0000-TDF0450
The 3914 prototype numbers are TDF0501-TDF0972

It will be interesting to see if other 3913/3914 prototype owners chime in.
 
18DAI it looks like our low numbers are in the prototype run.
 
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Maddog 521 I think you are right. Based on the only and best information available, the SCSW 3rd edition, both of our guns serial numbers fall in 3900 series "prototype" range.

But there is some confusion. Based on the info in skjos post I went back and reread the 3913 paragraph as well as the 3914 paragraph in the SCSW 3rd edition.

It states that the 472 model 3914's lacked a milling cut in the "trigger guard area". I'm not seeing that on mine. It looks......normal. Maddog 521, is your trigger guard area different from any other 39XX series gun?

It also states that the 3913 prototypes were serialed TDF0000 - TDF0450. Then it states that "TDF0019 was reported as a 3914."

If all this is correct, then mine and Maddog 521's 3914's are both prototypes that also fall in the 3913 prototypes serial range. So I guess we should "report" those two 3914's as well. ;)

Based on the statement in the SCSW 3rd edition "....possibly some serial number overlap..." I think that is what we have here and can now confirm serial number overlap in 3913/3914 prototypes.

But there is for me a question as to whether these guns are actually prototypes or simply pre production guns. Or perhaps a test batch to be sent out as "sales samples" for reps to demonstrate.

Seems to me that 800 some odd guns is a very large number of prototypes. IIRC the most S&W model prototypes I ever recall hearing of were the 459 guns done up for the Army trials in the 80's. I don't remember how many were made but I think it was less than 30 guns.

Maybe some of the experts or collectors here will opine. I hope Mr Dave Nash sees this thread and gives us some help with it. :)

Anyways, thanks all for the information! Anyone else think its time for a 4th edition of the SCSW? ;) Regards 18DAI
 
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Could you show a picture of what the "milling cuts on the trigger guard area" looks like? I only have the one so I have nothing to compare it to. I'm also having trouble finding the "3914 paragraph" you refered to. Where do I find that also? Thanks
 
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Maddog 521 I would post a pic of what the SCSW is referencing, if I had one. ;) As far as I can tell, my TDF prefix 3914 has the same milling in the trigger guard as my NIB TEC prefix 3914 and early production TEF prefix 3913. All three look identical, to me. I don't see what the SCSW is talking about.

You can find the SCSW 3rd edition 3914 and 3913 info (paragraphs) I am referencing on pages 300 (3913) and 301 (3914).

I have tried to attach a Jpeg of my TDF prefix 3914. Maybe someone here can see something I am missing. Regards 18DAI

Edited to add: Do you think they (SCSW 3rd) are talking about where the top and back of the trigger guard meets the frame? It appears "cut" rather than smoothly meeting the frame. I won't have my TEC prefix 3914 till mid July. It is in layaway at the LGS. The photo he sent me looks........the same as this one.
 

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Yea, well don't get used to it! ;) :)

OK. I just studied a photo of a 3914 posted in another thread I started on another board.

A fellow officer is looking at a 3914 for back up off duty too. He posted a picture that shows a smooth transition of the frame into the trigger guard, vice the abrupt "cut" and "ledge" of the frame/trigger guard on my TDF prefix 3914. I guess this must be what the SCSW was talking about.

Maddog 521 is your 3914 trigger guard like the one in my pic? Regards 18DAI
 
I have a 3914 with serial TDF0109, it looks exactly the same as the picture posted above...
 
OK then, grif684's TDF prefix 3914 makes three "prototypes" owned by members here. All of them in the purported 3913 prototype serial batch too. Anyone else have one?

Based on the "cuts" to the trigger guard at the top and back where it meets the frame on these 3914 prototypes, I think we can conclude that this is what the SCSW is referring to when it says "...slight difference in trigger guard area."

I still think over 470 guns........ and more if you count all these 3914's with serials allegedly alotted to the 3913 prototypes...is far too many units to be prototypes. Anyone else think so?

And hey, we figured this all out with no information or help from any "experts"!! ;) :) Regards 18DAI
 
18DAI said:
Maddog 521 I would post a pic of what the SCSW is referencing, if I had one. ;) As far as I can tell, my TDF prefix 3914 has the same milling in the trigger guard as my NIB TEC prefix 3914 and early production TEF prefix 3913. All three look identical, to me. I don't see what the SCSW is talking about.

You can find the SCSW 3rd edition 3914 and 3913 info (paragraphs) I am referencing on pages 300 (3913) and 301 (3914).

I have tried to attach a Jpeg of my TDF prefix 3914. Maybe someone here can see something I am missing. Regards 18DAI

Edited to add: Do you think they (SCSW 3rd) are talking about where the top and back of the trigger guard meets the frame? It appears "cut" rather than smoothly meeting the frame. I won't have my TEC prefix 3914 till mid July. It is in layaway at the LGS. The photo he sent me looks........the same as this one.
Click to expand...

18DAI mine looks different than the picture you posted.
On mine, the top of thetrigger guard by the checkering, there is more radius cuts on both sides.
Also more radius cuts on the bottom of the trigger guard into the grip.
The inside of the trigger guard is also different than the one you posted.
I will try and take some pictures and post them, but I'm not guaranteeing anything that looks professional.
 
Kinda makes me wonder if the SCSW flipped the serial number ranges from the 3914 and 3913.
 
skjos said:
The SWSC is a great resource, but I've found quite a few errors in my limited research. The book may have simply gotten the prototype runs of the 3913 and 3914 mixed up.

Per SWSC:
The 3913 prototype numbers are TDF0000-TDF0450
The 3914 prototype numbers are TDF0501-TDF0972

It will be interesting to see if other 3913/3914 prototype owners chime in.
Click to expand...

Surely some of the members have 3913s in the TDF serial number range to verify this?
 
18DAI is most likely correct that with the number of guns involved, the term "Prototype" is probably being misused... think early production guns instead.

Also, it's not surprising that there could be an overlap in S/N ranges between models... S&W is known for not being above board from time to time and playing it loose when it comes to that.

The 4506 variations are a good example of S&W not holding "true" to their normal practices.

As an example... model number markings not matching up with the engineering features. As 18DAI chronicled in his excellent post here sometime ago, by all rights there should have been a 4506-2, but S&W choose not to do that and continued stamping 4506-1 on the frames despite the number of changes that took place.

But yet on the 4516's... in my opinion there wasn't as great of a degree in the changes made to the 4516-1, as what took place with the 4506's, to warrant it being changed to a 4516-2, but S&W did it.
 
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Thanks very much Gunhacker for the information!! I was hoping we would get some expert commentary here!! Much appreciated!

I think that this is a case of the SCSW needing updating as new information becomes available. It would appear, based on evidence that there were quite a few 3914's in the 3913 prototype serial number batch.

One other thing I noticed while examining my TDF prefix 3914. The decocker paddles on it are cut/thinned on the inside as well as "flattened" on the outside surface. They appear to provide more clearance from the slide than the later production units.

Oh, I agree on the 4516's too. The 4516-1 was the only real departure in features that I saw. The -2 and unofficial -3 were for all intents and purposes -1's with longer tangs and a return to the nestled dual recoil spring set-up.

Thanks again for assisting us! :) Best regards, 18DAI
 
18DAI said:
OK then, grif684's TDF prefix 3914 makes three "prototypes" owned by members here. All of them in the purported 3913 prototype serial batch too. Anyone else have one?

Based on the "cuts" to the trigger guard at the top and back where it meets the frame on these 3914 prototypes, I think we can conclude that this is what the SCSW is referring to when it says "...slight difference in trigger guard area."

I still think over 470 guns........ and more if you count all these 3914's with serials allegedly alotted to the 3913 prototypes...is far too many units to be prototypes. Anyone else think so?

And hey, we figured this all out with no information or help from any "experts"!! ;) :) Regards 18DAI
Click to expand...

It may be poor form to revive an old thread..but I just bought TDF0013, a NIB 3914 formerly owned by Mr. Roy Jinks. Paperwork shows that he picked it up from the factory. Will do a post on it when it arrives early next week. Will supplement this post with pics.

Box says, "Low Number," in reference to serial number, under "Features." Product code 103912. Special order 9285.
 
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Congrats NCBeagle! You are well on your way to a very nice collection of 3rd gen guns.

I no longer own my 3914 prototype. I sold it to a gentleman who had need of it and appreciated it for what it is. Mine was surplus to me as my 3914NL and CS9 fill any needs I have for 9mm carry guns. Regards 18DAI
 
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