3rd Gen armorers or detail strip manual
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pmosley
Member
Member BlueBellyYankee posted up some video on this forum that is as good or better than anything else I've seen available.
Search on his name and you should be able to find the series.
Good luck!
Search on his name and you should be able to find the series.
Good luck!
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Smith & Wesson Mod 4506 advanced takedown Part 2 - YouTube
Smith & Wesson Mod 4506 advanced takedown Part 3 - YouTube
Would love to find a detailed instruction book, who knows how long the vids will last and nothing is better than looking at a paper manual while actually working.
Smith & Wesson Mod 4506 advanced takedown Part 3 - YouTube
Would love to find a detailed instruction book, who knows how long the vids will last and nothing is better than looking at a paper manual while actually working.
BLUEBELLYYANKEE
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Here is the link to the original thread with those videos:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...7-s-w-3rd-gen-complete-disassembly-video.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...7-s-w-3rd-gen-complete-disassembly-video.html
I've seen them all, starting with AGI and your's are, with out a doubt, the best.
Thanks
Dave
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robotoid
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This. As much as the videos help and have their definite value, I'd like a hard copy book or manual. S&W had to publish armorers manual at some point, where did they all go?
Fastbolt
Member
The S&W pistol armorer's manual for the 3rd gen guns, like most armorer manuals, is really meant to be used by someone who has gone through the class. It provides an outline to be fleshed out with lots of notes and hands-on experience gained in the class, not to mention with the instructions & explanations provided by instructors.
It contains simple instructions, following the proper steps, along with black & white pictures ... but it's knowing how to perform those actions stated in the instructions and steps that's important. Being told to "remove this & that", with a picture of the parts shown outside the gun, after removal, may miss some important "how to do it without breaking or damaging something" information.
The manual has plenty of room for notes to be taken by the armorers, as not everyone learns things the same way or grasps concepts quite the same. Notes are very important. My first armorer manual has LOTS of notes (which I still refer to from time to time).
When I was speaking with the fellow who's been writing the new manuals and rewriting/updating the old manuals, he said the 3rd gen manual was on his list to revise, but he's been too busy with new manuals and his other training responsibilities. There's a mistake (reversed orientation of a part in a picture) that's still in the 3rd gen manual, and which he said is on his list to correct at some point.
Also, the newer 3rd gen pistol armorer manuals don't contain a few of the corrections/repairs contained in my first manual, since there have been parts & manufacturing changes since then.
The older guns (with the older parts) are still out there, of course, but the general feeling seems to be that the older guns are probably not in as much use as the newer models, and armorers probably won't be seeing them quite as much. Guns are cycled out-of-service and replaced with newer models, after all. (Yes, I know, personally-owned guns favored by cops often remain with them for a lot more years, like 1st & 2nd gen TDA's. )
Armorer manuals have lists of Malfunctions, Probable Causes & Corrective Actions, and inspection lists ... but it's the extra notes, explanations from different instructors (and other experienced armorers in different classes) and subtle variations & helpful tricks that are added during classes that are really helpful.
Then, there's the new manufacturing changes and design revisions that have occurred since the last manual revision, and which have to be added by hand, by the armorer students, until the manuals can eventually be revised.
Mistakes are easy to make in classes, and that's with an open manual in front of the student, notes taken, an instructor demonstrating & discussing a procedure, and maybe even an experienced armorer sitting on either side at your table.
This is why armorers are generally asked to recertify somewhere between 3-4 years on most firearms, so they can remain current and up-to-date on all the manufacturing & design changes ... which might have an effect on how maintenance, corrections and repairs are needed and performed.
BTW, while the newer manuals being produced by various gun companies have much better pictures (some black & white and some color), as well as some computer generated illustrations, I still like some of the older line drawings in older manuals. Sometimes the bare, uncluttered line drawings made it easy to grasp some aspect of how something functioned, or needed to be repaired, filed, etc. (Of course, there was still the potential for making mistakes, thinking you were following the illustration the right way.
)
FWIW, I've looked at a number of online videos posted by folks, and sometimes I wonder where someone got the idea to do what they're doing. Besides, even being able to completely disassemble a frame or slide doesn't explain how to inspect, gauge, identify and correct some suspected problem. Improper (or awkward) disassembly & reassembly can also present ample opportunity for damaging or breaking parts & assemblies, too.
Then, there are the tools needed for some of the gauge checks & repairs, and how to use them properly.
It contains simple instructions, following the proper steps, along with black & white pictures ... but it's knowing how to perform those actions stated in the instructions and steps that's important. Being told to "remove this & that", with a picture of the parts shown outside the gun, after removal, may miss some important "how to do it without breaking or damaging something" information.
The manual has plenty of room for notes to be taken by the armorers, as not everyone learns things the same way or grasps concepts quite the same. Notes are very important. My first armorer manual has LOTS of notes (which I still refer to from time to time).
When I was speaking with the fellow who's been writing the new manuals and rewriting/updating the old manuals, he said the 3rd gen manual was on his list to revise, but he's been too busy with new manuals and his other training responsibilities. There's a mistake (reversed orientation of a part in a picture) that's still in the 3rd gen manual, and which he said is on his list to correct at some point.
Also, the newer 3rd gen pistol armorer manuals don't contain a few of the corrections/repairs contained in my first manual, since there have been parts & manufacturing changes since then.
The older guns (with the older parts) are still out there, of course, but the general feeling seems to be that the older guns are probably not in as much use as the newer models, and armorers probably won't be seeing them quite as much. Guns are cycled out-of-service and replaced with newer models, after all. (Yes, I know, personally-owned guns favored by cops often remain with them for a lot more years, like 1st & 2nd gen TDA's.
) Armorer manuals have lists of Malfunctions, Probable Causes & Corrective Actions, and inspection lists ... but it's the extra notes, explanations from different instructors (and other experienced armorers in different classes) and subtle variations & helpful tricks that are added during classes that are really helpful.
Then, there's the new manufacturing changes and design revisions that have occurred since the last manual revision, and which have to be added by hand, by the armorer students, until the manuals can eventually be revised.
Mistakes are easy to make in classes, and that's with an open manual in front of the student, notes taken, an instructor demonstrating & discussing a procedure, and maybe even an experienced armorer sitting on either side at your table.
This is why armorers are generally asked to recertify somewhere between 3-4 years on most firearms, so they can remain current and up-to-date on all the manufacturing & design changes ... which might have an effect on how maintenance, corrections and repairs are needed and performed.
BTW, while the newer manuals being produced by various gun companies have much better pictures (some black & white and some color), as well as some computer generated illustrations, I still like some of the older line drawings in older manuals. Sometimes the bare, uncluttered line drawings made it easy to grasp some aspect of how something functioned, or needed to be repaired, filed, etc. (Of course, there was still the potential for making mistakes, thinking you were following the illustration the right way.
)FWIW, I've looked at a number of online videos posted by folks, and sometimes I wonder where someone got the idea to do what they're doing. Besides, even being able to completely disassemble a frame or slide doesn't explain how to inspect, gauge, identify and correct some suspected problem. Improper (or awkward) disassembly & reassembly can also present ample opportunity for damaging or breaking parts & assemblies, too.
Then, there are the tools needed for some of the gauge checks & repairs, and how to use them properly.
fastbolt....you may have answered this somewhere else...but what are the pre-qualifications to take an armorers course....how long do they last?...are they all held at SW hq?...are they generation,model,specific?......just curious
Here's a link to S&W about the courses.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...4_750001_750051_757974_-1_757972_757812_image
Fastbolt may have more to add.
Dave
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...4_750001_750051_757974_-1_757972_757812_image
Fastbolt may have more to add.
Dave
Fastbolt
Member
fastbolt....you may have answered this somewhere else...but what are the pre-qualifications to take an armorers course....how long do they last?...are they all held at SW hq?...are they generation,model,specific?......just curious
S&W offers armorer classes for the various pistols, revolvers and rifles commonly sold to their LE/Gov customers. Most typically that means it's LE, Military or licensed Security that's attending their classes.
The classes are held at either their Springfield plant, or in the "field", meaning traveling around to different venues (mostly agencies). Field classes may be open to any of the qualified categories of persons, or restricted to specific agencies.
Last I heard, S&W wasn't offering to let private non-affiliated citizens to sign up for classes. (They don't have nearly enough instructors, for one thing.)
I've seen Ruger offer classes, but they aren't exactly big in the LE market. I regret not having thought to sign up for their revolver armorer class back when it included both the Security-Six & GP series revolvers, since the guy who ran it retired many years ago, and I was told it wasn't seeing a lot of demand afterward.
I recently turned down the chance to attend an armorer class for the Mossberg 590 shotgun (supposedly authorized by Mossberg, but taught by a vendor company). The reason? Not interested in paying for a class for a weapon that's hardly ever seen as an issued weapon in my part of CA. Maybe if it were being taught closer, and only cost $150.
SIG and Glock, last I looked, offered ordinary owners some opportunities to take a basic armorer class. It used to be just at the factory for SIG (pistol armorer class for Classic series), and Glock offered GSSF members opportunities to sign up for some classes (restrictions could still exist for "closed", agency-specific classes, though). Glock has always allowed employees of stocking Glock dealers to attend field classes.
The SIG classes are more expensive than the Glock classes, and take a couple of days instead of just 1 day, so lodging can cost more.
You can look up Law Enforcement Training on the S&W website (which isn't responding at the moment, or I'd post a link) to read about the classes, tools, etc.
FWIW, S&W has shortened the pistol armorer (3rd gen) classes to only 2 days, making it comparable to SIG's standard pistol armorer class. New manufacturing tolerances and production makes this possible, as the guns are simpler to maintain, service & repair than in the 90's. They dropped the DAO part of my last recert class, which is how it became a 2-day class versus a 3-day class. Quite a bit different than the week long field class I took in the 90's, which not only had us each working on 8-student guns (1 was a 5906 "extractor & sight" gun, which received the most abuse to the slide, and the other 7 5906's were just to add to the repetition & complexity of what we were doing), but included a half day Sigma armorer class.
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S&W offers armorer classes for the various pistols, revolvers and rifles commonly sold to their LE/Gov customers. Most typically that means it's LE, Military or licensed Security that's attending their classes.
The class are held at either their Springfield plant, or in the "field", meaning traveling around to different venues (mostly agencies). Field classes may be open to any of the qualified categories of persons, or restricted to specific agencies.
Last I heard, S&W wasn't offering to let private non-affiliated citizens to sign up for classes. (They don't have nearly enough instructors, for one thing.)
I've seen Ruger offer classes, but they aren't exactly big in the LE market. I regret not having thought to sign up for their revolver armorer class back when it included both the Security-Six & GP series revolvers, since the guy who ran it retired many years ago, and I was told it wasn't seeing a lot of demand afterward.
I recently turned down the chance to attend an armorer class for the Mossberg 590 shotgun (supposedly authorized by Mossberg, but taught by a vendor company). The reason? Not interested in paying for a class for a weapon that's hardly ever seen as an issued weapon in my part of CA. Maybe if it were being taught closer, and only cost $150.
SIG and Glock, last I looked, offered ordinary owners some opportunities to take a basic armorer class. It used to be just at the factory for SIG (pistol armorer class for Classic series), and Glock offered GSSF members opportunities to sign up for some classes (restrictions could still exist for "closed", agency-specific classes, though). Glock has always allowed employees of stocking Glock dealers to attend field classes.
The SIG classes are more expensive than the Glock classes, and take a couple of days instead of just 1 day, so lodging can cost more.
You can look up Law Enforcement Training on the S&W website (which isn't responding at the moment, or I'd post a link) to read about the classes, tools, etc.
FWIW, S&W has shortened the pistol armorer (3rd gen) classes to only 2 days, making it comparable to SIG's standard pistol armorer class. New manufacturing tolerances and production makes this possible, as the guns are simpler to maintain, service & repair than in the 90's. They dropped the DAO part of my last recert class, which is how it became a 2-day class versus a 3-day class. Quite a bit different than the week long field class I took in the 90's, which not only had us each working on 8-student guns (1 was a 5906 "extractor & sight" gun, which received the most abuse to the slide, and the other 7 5906's were just to add to the repetition & complexity of what we were doing), but included a half day Sigma armorer class.
thanks...just what I wanted to know
