4 digit HE 45lc

[tenntex32]

yes, def a factory rebuild and not terwillegered.. now down to if it left the factory as a 45lc

While I could see someone possibly wanting to replace a worn barrel with a new barrel as part of a factory rework order I don't see any reason why S&W would change out the whole cylinder if it was already in .45Colt.

My gut feeling is new barrel, and new cylinder. (If both s/n fonts are truly the same and a later style.) And then a refinish. Possibly some other issues corrected with regards to the action while it was there just to bring it completely back into spec.

Could S&W simply have shaved a few thousandths off the back of the cylinder and then restamped the same serial number on it.........sure. But they still would have had to ream the .455 chambers out to accept .45Colt and it most likely it would have been easier and cheaper to replace the whole cylinder with a new .45Colt version. And it would be a new cylinder.

Only way to be sure of anything is to get it papered.

A very interesting example and thanks for sharing it with us. (Or more accurately thanks for putting up with all of our questions and demands for more pics!)

Dale

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

What was the number stamped on the upper forward part of the left side grip frame? (Assuming it possibly is a number

....... 4 9

 

[tenntex32]

When you say it is all-numbers matching does that include the right side stock(grip) serial number?

How is it serialized.......by pencil or is it stamped?

Please provide a good clear pic of that if possible. If it is stamped I am curious as to it's font as well.

If it is matching then even better. (My apologies if I missed this info, but a quick thread read turned up nothing specific to it's number.)

 

[tenntex32]

....... 4 9

A "49" would be very very interesting with regards to it possibly going back to S&W more than once unless the more knowledgeable feel there is absolutely no way it could mean 1949. On my S&W M1917 examples I do not see any digits stamped where your "49" is, not that that means anything specifically with regards to your example.

I want to say I have seen simple two-digit factory rework year codes as well, but someone please correct me if they feel this could only be an inspector number and not a rework year code.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

When you say it is all-numbers matching does that include the right side stock(grip) serial number?

How is it serialized.......by pencil or is it stamped?

Please provide a good clear pic of that if possible. If it is stamped I am curious as to it's font as well.

If it is matching then even better. (My apologies if I missed this info, but a quick thread read turned up nothing specific to it's number.)

def 4 digit,, can't make out the first (assuming it's a 6 ) the others are (6) 8 7 8

 

[tenntex32]

def 4 digit,, can't make out the first (assuming it's a 6 ) the others are (6) 8 7 8

The lead handwritten serial number is to be expected on a correct original set of grips for the time period your revolver most likely shipped. Another plus in my book.

Over the years I have had pretty decent luck reading the faded handwritten serial numbers on my M1917 grips by taking numerous pictures of them with the macro setting, various flash modes, and in various direct/indirect lighting conditions. Not always foolproof but usually I will take a bunch of pics and then review them carefully on my laptop. More times than not it has helped determine the complete serial number of a grip for me.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

The lead handwritten serial number is to be expected on a correct original set of grips for the time period your revolver most likely shipped.

Another plus in my book.

i won't be using this as the plinker i wanted it to be, i guess i'll have to find another $125.00 plinker

 

[tenntex32]

It won't hurt to put a few rounds downrange with it every now and then. It's the least you can do for the old gal.

After all if yer gonna manhandle her you should at least feed her every now and then.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

It won't hurt to put a few rounds downrange with it every now and then. It's the least you can do for the old gal.

if it turns out a factory lc , i'll let the next owner shoot it

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

maybe another thread on this ol piece of scrap iron

 

[tenntex32]

if it turns out a factory lc , i'll let the next owner shoot it

I'll make you a deal. Go shoot it a few times and if it turns out it was originally shipped from S&W chambered in .45Colt I'll give you 95% of your $125 purchase price for it due to the additional wear.

That way you're only out 5% and you had the joy of shooting it.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

I'll make you a deal. Go shoot it a few times and if it turns out it was originally shipped from S&W chambered in .45Colt I'll give you 95% of your $125 purchase price for it due to the additional wear.

That way you're only out 5% and you had the joy of shooting it.

.......

 

[tenntex32]

maybe another thread on this ol piece of scrap iron

Start another'n and we'll go from there.

Just one gentle suggestion............let's start out with lots of good quality pics this time!

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

Start another'n and we'll go from there.

Just one gentle suggestion this time.........lets start out with lots of good quality pics this time!

......

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

Start another'n and we'll go from there.

Just one gentle suggestion this time.........lets start out with lots of good quality pics this time!

.........

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

now that i know it isn't some cobbled together scrap iron, i'll get the letter form send out tomorrow on the 6878

 

[tenntex32]

now that i know it isn't some cobbled together scrap iron, i'll get the letter form send out tomorrow on the 6878

Don't forget you will want the factory letter detailing the original ship date, recipient, and configuration....... and then the SWHF letter that may detail the rework performed at S&W when it was returned back to them.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

Don't forget you will want the factory letter detailing the original ship date, recipient, and configuration....... and then the SWHF letter that may detail the rework performed at S&W when it was returned back to them.

is that the historian letter ? is 2 correct ?

 

[tenntex32]

is that the historian letter ? is 2 correct ?

Yes two separate letters.

The "factory letter" will only give you the ship date, who it was shipped to, and the original configuration of the revolver when it shipped. (There may be some additional information with regards to model and numbers typically shipped for the contract, etc....)

The SWHF letter will provide additional information with regards to any later additional work performed since it went back to S&W for rework. This is assuming they still have the information in their records. I have even seen SWHF information provide detail sales and options/order information with regards to the purchaser.

Unless things have changed I think you have to have the factory letter before obtaining the SWHF information.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

Yes two separate letters.

The "factory letter" will only give you the ship date, who it was shipped to, and the original configuration of the revolver when it shipped. (There may be some additional information with regards to model and numbers typically shipped for the contract, etc....)

The SWHF letter will provide additional information with regards to any later additional work performed since it went back to S&W for rework. This is assuming they still have the information in their records. I have even seen SWHF information provide detail sales and options/order information with regards to the purchaser.

Unless things have changed I think you have to have the factory letter before obtaining the SWHF information.

i read in one book that there was 11 special order 45lcs about the serial number range of this one and 77 lc for commercial and the sn's are not avail for the lc cas of duplis or ? hope the letter helps

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

we did get a reply from the s&w historian claiming it was "special"

 

[tenntex32]

we did get a reply from the s&w historian claiming it was "special"

Okay then I'll give you 97% of the $125 purchase price after you shoot it!

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

Okay then I'll give you 97% of the $125 purchase price after you shoot it!

are you a gambler? if so, ill sell it to you for half of the value of a real lc and you do the letter

 

[tenntex32]

are you a gambler? if so, ill sell it to you for half of the value of a real lc and you do the letter

You mean real or original?

After all you paid $125 for a real .45Colt...........just may or may not be the original caliber.

Okay I'll take the chance for $62.50.

Pm me where to send the funds. I am assuming the $62.50 includes shipping and transfer costs?

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

You men real or original?

After all you paid $125 for a real .45Colt...........just may or may not be the original caliber.

Okay I'll take the chance for $62.50.

Pm me where to send the funds. I am assuming the $62.50 includes shipping and transfer costs?

is it live or is it memorex

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

so now the $64.000 question.. what is the value of a real lc ?

 

[tenntex32]

so now the $64.000 question.. what is the value of a real lc ?

Oh man you are asking the wrong fella here. I'm a Model 1917 guy.

It is a very interesting question.

Oh, it's now a $62.50 question though. Are you already wanting to buy it back from me? If so I'll have to wait and see what the experts feel it might possibly be worth if it turns out it was originally chambered in .45Colt.

I'll get back to you if I do decide to sell it but for now I think I'll hold onto it.

 

[Hondo44]

Welcome!

Which book are you referring to that indicated 11 were made in 45 Colt in that serial # range?

If you have a factory letter, other than saying it's special, what cartridge does it verify as the original?


1. The factory 45 Colts were not marked with the cal or cartridge. Many 455 British contract revolvers are not marked either. See this database:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...26646-455-mk-ii-revolver-research-thread.html

Go to post #223 for the latest updated database info, page 5:

2. .455 2nd Models made for the Canadians in .45 Colt:

By Feb 1916 724 were manufactured for the Canadians, chambered in 45 Colt, without a cartridge roll mark on barrel, presumed for the RCMP [H of S&W, 3rd ed., pg. 203]. All of these that are known are in the 70XXX range.
Another 15 in 45 Colt were sold commercially in 1916; likely "over run" guns from the above order. All these.45 Colts were numbered above 40XXX.

3. Your gun was serviced at the factory 10-1951. Likely a replacement 45 Colt barrel and cyl was installed and the entire gun was refinished. The 41 stamped high up on the grip frame is just an assembler/inspector stamp and of no help.

4. The recoil shield on your gun may not be shaved off at the top half of the recoil shield. The factory would have had a difficult time retaining the headspace with a shaved recoil shield just by replacing the cyl.

5. The black rings at the beginning of the chamber throats are the transitional tapered shoulders in all cyls for cartridges with a rolled crimp. The 45 ACP is the only exception and has a square cut shoulder because it has a taper crimp and must head space on the cartridge mouth. Shown here in tenntex32's 1917 45 ACP cyl:

6. You have an extremely nice 455 2nd model that went to war across the pond, made it back to the USA, converted to 45 Colt properly with a brand new factory installed cyl at the factory, and treated to a factory finish* and 45 Colt cyl.

*After WWII, the factory also polished the rebound slide stud flush because that's the way they finishing new guns after the war.

 

[tenntex32]

I'm still in at at your sale offer of $62.50.

 

[tenntex32]

The 41 stamped high up on the grip frame is just an assembler/inspector stamp and of no help.

Jim,

Is where the "49" is stamped on the left side upper forward grip frame a common location for original factory stamps for some variants? I do not see this area used for stamps on any of my M1917 examples that I own. Also, a 2nd Model .455 (a non-factory conversion to .45acp) that I used to own was not stamped in that area.

Nor is this area used for stamps on my commercial frame M1917, Brazilian M1917, 25-2, nor my pair of 28-2 examples. That's why it caught my attention right away.

Would it have been applied by or for an assembler/inspector when it was sent back for rework?

(Yes like an idiot with nothing better to do I just double checked all my N-frames.....but once again that's why the "49" on the OP's example caught my attention rather quickly.)