Jakerin
Member
Yeah, I like the feel of the arched back strap on the M39 too. The curve fits my hand just right.
40 S&W M&P and felt recoil
- Thread starter neorebel
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Yeah, I like the feel of the arched back strap on the M39 too. The curve fits my hand just right.
Monogrip Sleeves help the Shield for bigger hands.
Same here. Bought a used Glock 23 from a lgs during the Clinton Ban because it came with a couple of high cap magazines (which were "outlawed" at the time). I planned to use this as an EDC pistol, but as LVSteve stated, the recoil was nasty and it soured me on .40 S&W. I ended up trading that pistol in and went back to .45 ACP. I think it must be bad ergonomics because these days I shoot 10mm (M&P 10mm 2.0) without any issues. I still don't look at anything in .40 S&W, including bargain priced police trade-ins.
mrshyvley
Member
I started out carrying a .357 Magnum revolver and I've never understood the complaints about the .40SW recoil.
I too like the M&P 40, and bought two 1.0's some years back cheap that were in excellent condition.
I also bought OEM .357 Sig barrels for them as I like the .357 Sig, and use Underwood 125gr JHP at 1475fps for defensive carry.
I too like the M&P 40, and bought two 1.0's some years back cheap that were in excellent condition.
I also bought OEM .357 Sig barrels for them as I like the .357 Sig, and use Underwood 125gr JHP at 1475fps for defensive carry.
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Well Armed
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You can see from @Hawg Rider's comment the lunacy in it all. Doesn't like 40s&w because he tried one gun in 40s&w with probably one or two types of ammo, but he's happy with 10mm which is either loaded to be simular like 40s&w 90% of the or hotter then 40s&w for full power hunting loads. It makes absolutely zero logical sense.
I think some people's perceptions, what they like, and what they don't like is subconsciously heavily influenced by their environment and what their peers think. If LE, NATO, and all the social media influences started pushing 40s&w, many of the same naysayers would flip-flop.
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I take exception to Forum members slamming other Forum members for their likes or dislikes. "Lunacy" and "absolutely zero logical sense" are not the kind of comments we need to see here on the Forum! I was trying to make the point that the ergonomics of the modern S&W M&P pistols are much better than those of the earlier Glocks and help to reduce felt recoil of cartridges like the .40 S&W and 10mm. Poor ergonomics and recoil are probably contributors to why so many police forces abandoned the .40 for 9mm.
Well Armed
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I'm not shaming anyone for their preference. People can have any preference they want to have. I'm just saying that the logic and rationale, many people, not just you, express for not preferring or outright disliking 40s&w does not make any sense. It's not a personal attack on you, but rather, I'm giving my point of view on the reasoning/logic you and others have given.
FYI: Law enforcement went with 9mm for cost to save themselves money, and because 9mm was just good enough (not better). Then you say "ergonomics," but I would point out that 40s&w often has the same ergos as 9mm. As I pointed out in pervious post, there are several 40s&w offerings in the 180 gr weight that law enforcement often used that has LESS velocity and muzzle energy than some of the popular JHP 9mm self-defense ammo on the market, so the canned response blanketed assertions that all 40s&w is snappy and has an unflattering recoil impulse and all 9mm has less recoil, etc. is not exactly true in all cases. In the case of hotter 40s&w, I agree with you 100% that the ergonomics of some platforms will tame hotter rounds whether in 9mm, 40s&w, etc... There are just caveats (platform, weight, ergonomics, size, ammo selection) to whether recoil impulse will be more or less. I'm not referring to you here, but it seems like everyone acknowledges that fact with all other calibers except in the case of 40s&w for some reason.
Law enforcement basically changed for the same reason why the military and many law enforcement agencies went with the P320 of Glock, Beretta APX, and many other options. It wasn't the best option, didn't perform better, but Sig had the lowest bid and a product that was just good enough.
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mrshyvley
Member
Yes, the ergonomics of the M&P 40 are much better then the Glock 23 .40 S&W, but I carried a Glock 23 .40 S&W for several years after buying it in the 1990's and though "clunky", it was still a usable pistol until I sold it.
As far as departments switching to 9mm, though there were complaints about recoil, the main driver I remember is the belief that 9mm bullet technology had improved, 9mm was cheaper than the .40 S&W, and 9mm was believed now good enough.
Personally, I never owned or carried a 9mm until I bought an M&P Shield 9mm for a pocket pistol 10 years ago or so, because I always had more faith in a more powerful round.
But each to their own.
BourbonCowboy
Member
I almost bought a M&P .40. My plan was to buy a conversion barrel to shoot both 9mm and .40 with it. Then I found that I could buy a complete HK VP40 slide for roughly the same price...so I did. I found the VP40 slide to be wider and beefier than the 9mm slide and the recoil was very manageable. I'm very happy with my decision.
scattershot
Member
I am a fan of the .40, and I never had a problem with recoil until I recently picked up a Glock 22. The thing kicks like a mule.
Do you know the weight a m&p 4.25 40 slide , recoil spring and barrel are ? My old gen 1 4.25" 40 weight is 1lb 1.8oz and narrower . Thats good for CC so you can now weigh your vp40 slide for a real comparison . Also the old stock trigger was also a nothing special 5lb.5oz 11 years ago . . My gen 2 is a 5" an has is heavier upper weight of 1lb 4.1oz with a bone stock pull weight of 4lb 8.7oz average after 500 rounds .
I'm an old 1911 shooter so my m&p has a thumb safety option . Not a fan of finger grooves and prefer m&p's grip to VP .
Glad you have what you like now , good luck Just don't think the VP40 is a better handgun , Just different ! I like the P2000 in 40sw except for the shorter barrels . Only reason I did not buy one .
LVSteve
Member
The observations in this thread make me think that the Glock 23C I tried 20 years ago didn't really do the 40 S&W cartridge justice. Mind you, I was convinced that gun needed a new RSA because the empties were really flying. Could that be the problem with your G22?
Maybe when things settle down a bit domestically, I might try and score a surplus M&P in 40 just to see what's what in the modern era.
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scattershot
Member
I suspected as much, and replaced the RSA. Haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, we’ll see.
This one is a Gen 4, and has a different spring assembly. That may have something to do with it.
First .40 S&W I shot was a Gen 3 G35. Gave me a case of Glock knuckle and caused me to write off the notion of .40 S&W.
A couple years later, I got to shoot an XDM .40 S&W, and it was quite pleasant compared to that G35. Part of it was probably just how that G35 fit my hand; though IIRC, people said that the G35 had a lighter than ideal recoil spring.
I tend to use underwood 155gr loads that scoot along just over 1300fps from my m&p 4.25 for carry and reloads in the 1260 fps for practice and find recoil very manageable . My underwood stash is getting low and looking at lucky gunner and a few other gell test and velocity have tried some 180gr hst and ranger t series and recoil is to me feels very close to 147gr 9mm standard velocity . Now I do run a 20lb recoil sing for the underwood and I do feel a little muzzle down when chambering the next round . Might be an 18lb recoil spring would be even nicer with the 180 hst and ranger t s ammo.
BourbonCowboy
Member
...and now I've bought one. It should be in Tuesday. I just couldn't stand it any longer.
The Shield 2.0 in 40 is far more pleasant to shoot than a j-frame 38 with +P ammo.
coleslaw
Member
I've shot a fair amount of .40 over the years, all of it through a M&P40 1.0 with Apex parts.
Shoots really well and I enjoy it. Always wondered what all the fuss was about and why all these sissies complained about the .40 being "snappy".
Guess now I know why.
Shoots really well and I enjoy it. Always wondered what all the fuss was about and why all these sissies complained about the .40 being "snappy".
Guess now I know why.
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