My new 50th edition Lyman Reloading manual does not give a factory duplication load using a 165 grain FMJ bullet.
Anyone know what the powder and charge would be ?
Anyone know what the powder and charge would be ?
.40 S&W
- Thread starter jimmyj
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steveno
Member
it is probably a non-canister grade powder that the ammunition companies have access to. these powder aren't held to the same specs as a canister grade powder which we use for reloading. one lot of factory ammo might use one powder and charge and the next lot might be different. the factories can do that because they have the pressure testing equipment to be able to do that. to duplicate a factory load you will need a chronograph and pick powders from your loading manual that will give something similar to the factory load
gwpercle
Member
Ammo companies don't pass out that information .
About the best you can do is look at the box of ammo you are trying to duplicate , find what the velocity is then match the velocity with a load given in your manual .
Chronographing both the factory load and your reloads will help get a close duplication .
Gary
About the best you can do is look at the box of ammo you are trying to duplicate , find what the velocity is then match the velocity with a load given in your manual .
Chronographing both the factory load and your reloads will help get a close duplication .
Gary
As much as I love the Lyman manuals, and that was the very first manual I bought when I started reloading, it does not contain all possible bullet and powder combinations. Visit the different powder manufacturer websites and gather reloading data for this combination. You will certainly need a chronograph to determine the exact velocity of the factory ammo from your firearm, then try to duplicate that velocity with your hand loads.
muddocktor
Member
Jimmy, I am about to try out 100 rounds of Zero brand 165 grain JHP rounds myself, with either CFE Pistol or Longshot powder. I will be loading up those just above midrange loads as shown by the Hodgdon website. I will try running them over my chrono to see how well they perform as compared to what Hodgdon says they will perform like. I don't have any 165 grain factory loads to compare to though.
gwpercle
Member
No manual contains all possible bullet and powder combinations...there are just too many .
Purchase several different manuals , Hornady , Speer ,Nosler , Sierra , Western Powders , Lyman , RCBS , Lee etc.
Only load for a few cartridges ...The Complete Reloading Manual For The (cartridge of choice) is an excellent assembly of data from bullet and powder makers .
Website data is good but I find some to be limited , only listing a maximum load . Website data along with a few printed manuals for cross referencing is a good way to go.
I don't think you can have too much load data information in this hobby .
What I'm trying to say is don't limit yourself to website data or one reloading manual , get some additional manuals and cross reference your data , I like to have three or four different sources to compare .
Gary
Purchase several different manuals , Hornady , Speer ,Nosler , Sierra , Western Powders , Lyman , RCBS , Lee etc.
Only load for a few cartridges ...The Complete Reloading Manual For The (cartridge of choice) is an excellent assembly of data from bullet and powder makers .
Website data is good but I find some to be limited , only listing a maximum load . Website data along with a few printed manuals for cross referencing is a good way to go.
I don't think you can have too much load data information in this hobby .
What I'm trying to say is don't limit yourself to website data or one reloading manual , get some additional manuals and cross reference your data , I like to have three or four different sources to compare .
Gary
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ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Most manuals will not give us duplicate loads of any ammo. If you want a duplicate you will have to put in the work to develop one. I spoke on duplicates recently in another thread, you need to try and match the velocity with the same weight bullet and try to find the powder that gives a similar recoil feel. It sometimes takes time to achieve that goal.
Good luck.
Good luck.
RDub
Member
Hi
Here is some 40 S&W 165gr factory load pull-downs.
40 S&W Winchester 165gr PDX1 Defender
Winchester .40 S&W 165gr PDX1 Defender - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com
40 S&W 165gr Federal Hydra-Shok
40 S&W 165gr Hydra-Shok - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com
40 S&W 165gr Winchester USA
Winchester USA 165gr FMJ Pulldown - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com
As you go through these you will discover that there is a variety of velocities and propellant charge wieghts. One would pick one factory load based on what the purpose is.
So it is with handloading. Decide on the level of performance you wish, and load accordingly. Having a chronograph helps tremendously, as what published data provides, whether factory load or reloading, does not always match up with what your gun will deliver.
Here is some 40 S&W 165gr factory load pull-downs.
40 S&W Winchester 165gr PDX1 Defender
Winchester .40 S&W 165gr PDX1 Defender - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com
40 S&W 165gr Federal Hydra-Shok
40 S&W 165gr Hydra-Shok - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com
40 S&W 165gr Winchester USA
Winchester USA 165gr FMJ Pulldown - Factory Ammo pull-downs - 10mm-firearms.com
As you go through these you will discover that there is a variety of velocities and propellant charge wieghts. One would pick one factory load based on what the purpose is.
So it is with handloading. Decide on the level of performance you wish, and load accordingly. Having a chronograph helps tremendously, as what published data provides, whether factory load or reloading, does not always match up with what your gun will deliver.
fredj338
Member
If you want to dulicate the factory load, look in the data for the vel you want, load that, simple. Of course withou a chrono, its a wag.
Alk8944
US Veteran
For cartridges in the 9mm-40 S&W and similar range it isn't a big secret. Information was published at one time by Alliant that the most commonly factory loaded powder for this class of cartridges was what was then referred to as B.E. 84 (B.E. 86 is not the same thing!
About 15-20 years ago B.E. 84 was released to reloaders as a canister grade propellant which is still available, known as POWER PISTOL. They should know, they were the one selling the propellant to the ammunition manufacturers!
So, simply buy some Power Pistol and look for the velocity you desire in the loading tables for the bullet weight you are interested in. If you really want to duplicate a specific load you will need to buy some factory ammunition of the specific brand and bullet weight and chronograph it, since published velocity rarely comes close to actual velocity produced by any factory loaded ammunition.
If you don't have a chronograph then buy one! You are S(orta).O.L. for knowing any velocity if you don't have one.
About 15-20 years ago B.E. 84 was released to reloaders as a canister grade propellant which is still available, known as POWER PISTOL. They should know, they were the one selling the propellant to the ammunition manufacturers!
So, simply buy some Power Pistol and look for the velocity you desire in the loading tables for the bullet weight you are interested in. If you really want to duplicate a specific load you will need to buy some factory ammunition of the specific brand and bullet weight and chronograph it, since published velocity rarely comes close to actual velocity produced by any factory loaded ammunition.
If you don't have a chronograph then buy one! You are S(orta).O.L. for knowing any velocity if you don't have one.
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muddocktor
Member
jimmyj, here is some data I just collected at the range today. I went there with a box of Winchester white box 165 FMJ flat points and chronoed them also. I also shot 165 and 180 grain reloads using Longshot powder, which looks to me like a great powder for 40 S&W. Here's the data I gathered:
Pistol used: Browning Hi Power
Winchester white box 165 grain FMJ
Avg velocity - 1061 ft/sec
ES - 33 ft/sec
SD - 9 ft/sec
Temperature - 69 F
Power Factor Avg - 175
Power Factor low - 172
Power Factor High - 178
Now for the reload performance data. Both the 165 and 180 grain loads were loaded with Longshot, not far from max load data on the Hodgdon website. Max load for the 180 grain on their site was 8.0 grains and strangely enough, their 165 grain data showed a max load of 7.8 grains.
Bullet - Zero 165 grain JHP
Case - Federal
Primer - CCI 500
Powder - Longshot - 7.6 grains
Avg velocity - 1173 ft/sec
ES - 37 ft/sec
SD - 11 ft/sec
Temperature - 71 F
Power Factor Avg - 193
Power Factor low - 190
Power Factor High - 196
Now the 180 grain data:
Bullet - Hornady 180 grain JHP XTP
Case - Federal
Primer - CCI 500
Powder - Longshot - 7.7 grains
Avg velocity - 1151 ft/sec
ES - 25 ft/sec
SD - 7 ft/sec
Temperature - 69 F
Power Factor Avg - 207
Power Factor low - 204
Power Factor High - 209
Neither of these reloads gave any visible signs of extreme pressure. Primers looked normal and no problems with feed or extraction. The 165 grain load is about 100 ft/sec faster than the WWB 165 plinkers, but probably is more in line with self defense loads for 40 S&W. Just looking at the Speer data, this load would make a good substitute for a Speer 165 Gold Dot load.
The 180 grain load is pretty much a beast of a 40 S&W load, looking at the specs of most factory ammo. Remington does make the "HD Ultimate Defense Ammunition" which the box specifies a full size firearm for, and they show a velocity of 1150 ft/sec for it. Most of your self defense 180 grain ammo shows velocities of a little over 1000 ft/sec. Next time I load 180's, I will probably back off the powder a little more. I did not see any problems with the cases from shooting this load though, no bulged brass or anything.
And I can't complain about the Longshot powder. It meters well and gives great performance in the 40 S&W and accuracy looked good also.
Finally, as always, this is data posted on the interwebs, so take my information as information only. I take no responsibility for what happens if you use this data. I know what I posted and how I load my ammo, but you don't have any idea if I am knowledgeable or not.
Pistol used: Browning Hi Power
Winchester white box 165 grain FMJ
Avg velocity - 1061 ft/sec
ES - 33 ft/sec
SD - 9 ft/sec
Temperature - 69 F
Power Factor Avg - 175
Power Factor low - 172
Power Factor High - 178
Now for the reload performance data. Both the 165 and 180 grain loads were loaded with Longshot, not far from max load data on the Hodgdon website. Max load for the 180 grain on their site was 8.0 grains and strangely enough, their 165 grain data showed a max load of 7.8 grains.
Bullet - Zero 165 grain JHP
Case - Federal
Primer - CCI 500
Powder - Longshot - 7.6 grains
Avg velocity - 1173 ft/sec
ES - 37 ft/sec
SD - 11 ft/sec
Temperature - 71 F
Power Factor Avg - 193
Power Factor low - 190
Power Factor High - 196
Now the 180 grain data:
Bullet - Hornady 180 grain JHP XTP
Case - Federal
Primer - CCI 500
Powder - Longshot - 7.7 grains
Avg velocity - 1151 ft/sec
ES - 25 ft/sec
SD - 7 ft/sec
Temperature - 69 F
Power Factor Avg - 207
Power Factor low - 204
Power Factor High - 209
Neither of these reloads gave any visible signs of extreme pressure. Primers looked normal and no problems with feed or extraction. The 165 grain load is about 100 ft/sec faster than the WWB 165 plinkers, but probably is more in line with self defense loads for 40 S&W. Just looking at the Speer data, this load would make a good substitute for a Speer 165 Gold Dot load.
The 180 grain load is pretty much a beast of a 40 S&W load, looking at the specs of most factory ammo. Remington does make the "HD Ultimate Defense Ammunition" which the box specifies a full size firearm for, and they show a velocity of 1150 ft/sec for it. Most of your self defense 180 grain ammo shows velocities of a little over 1000 ft/sec. Next time I load 180's, I will probably back off the powder a little more. I did not see any problems with the cases from shooting this load though, no bulged brass or anything.
And I can't complain about the Longshot powder. It meters well and gives great performance in the 40 S&W and accuracy looked good also.
Finally, as always, this is data posted on the interwebs, so take my information as information only. I take no responsibility for what happens if you use this data. I know what I posted and how I load my ammo, but you don't have any idea if I am knowledgeable or not.
