I love it when these old threads come back to see us. Especially when they are about the .41.
41 Magnum & 44 Special
- Thread starter BlackSky
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If you don't reload, I think the light recoil of the winchester 175gr silvertip HP load would be a great SD load, when it can get +/- 1200 fps out of a 3" barrel S&W............
other wise a 210 gr LHP at around 1,000 fps would be a nice
SD load, 466 ft/lbs of energy is nothing to sneeze at, when the little 38 158 +P only kicks out 278 ft/lbs of energy.
A friend lets me shoot his at the range,now and then..........
Sweet Revolver, I can see why it has lots of followers.
other wise a 210 gr LHP at around 1,000 fps would be a nice
SD load, 466 ft/lbs of energy is nothing to sneeze at, when the little 38 158 +P only kicks out 278 ft/lbs of energy.
A friend lets me shoot his at the range,now and then..........
Sweet Revolver, I can see why it has lots of followers.
badguybuster
Member
I have fallen in love with 44 special, it is an extremely versatile round. You can load mouse fart to holy terror loads. I load everything from 180 grain fmj's to 300 grain hard cast loads. All are efficient
Charlie Foxtrott
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At the end of the day. Or at the end of the shoot out.
Whatever the case may be. If you have gotten a good hit on a bad guy with a .44 Remington Special round with a good bullet. Or you have gotten a good hit on a bad guy with a .41 Remington magnum round with a good bullet.
I do not really see where either one of these perps is going to cause you any problems at this point. This kind of reminds me of a six of one, half dozen of another type of situation.
what do I know? You really need to make your own judgements.
Whatever the case may be. If you have gotten a good hit on a bad guy with a .44 Remington Special round with a good bullet. Or you have gotten a good hit on a bad guy with a .41 Remington magnum round with a good bullet.
I do not really see where either one of these perps is going to cause you any problems at this point. This kind of reminds me of a six of one, half dozen of another type of situation.
what do I know? You really need to make your own judgements.
Stainless44
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The 44 special and the 41 magnum comparison is kind of an apples to oranges thing.
The 41 is a full house magnum load whose best comparison would be the 44 mag.
The 44 specials closest comparison would probably be the 45 ACP in terms of bullet weights and velocities.
Compare a 210 grain offering in each. The Lyman 49th edition lists 210 grain bullets in both:
44 special max at 905 fps
41 mag max at 1,473 fps
Either would be a good defensive load. Both are going to be expensive to feed unless you reload.
Recoil is subjective...everyone feels it differently. Some swear the 44 mag is a raging beast but my kid has been shooting full house magnum loads through it since he was 10. It's all in the mind really.
The 41 is a full house magnum load whose best comparison would be the 44 mag.
The 44 specials closest comparison would probably be the 45 ACP in terms of bullet weights and velocities.
Compare a 210 grain offering in each. The Lyman 49th edition lists 210 grain bullets in both:
44 special max at 905 fps
41 mag max at 1,473 fps
Either would be a good defensive load. Both are going to be expensive to feed unless you reload.
Recoil is subjective...everyone feels it differently. Some swear the 44 mag is a raging beast but my kid has been shooting full house magnum loads through it since he was 10. It's all in the mind really.
The most accurate, most powerful handgun I ever owned and shot was a Ruger 6-1/2" Blackhawk in .41 Mag. I've never had a handgun more accurate, and I could reload as heavy or light as I chose. It was more accurate than my buddy's Super BH .44 Mag and much less recoil. I put my jacketed SWCs thru the same trees his .44 did.
I've never shot a .44 Spec, but for defense work, I wouldn't hesitate to use one.
I've never shot a .44 Spec, but for defense work, I wouldn't hesitate to use one.
I use a 210gr lead SWC over 9gr of Unique out of my 57 Mountain gun and it is very accurate and recoil is not bad at all. I love the .41 Mag! I have never had a .44 Special or Mag for that matter. A friend of mine turned me onto the .41 years ago and it quickly became my favorite cartridge. I can load them light or heavy, very versatile.
Both calibers are great, but I have finally come to the conclusion that PENETRATION IS YOUR FRIEND! Exanguination is the VERY best bet to "stop the action." If you can "tear someone up" terribly and they bleed out, you're ahead of the game.
Several shots in the upper thoracic cavity will generally cause sufficient blood loss to cause the victim to become hypertensive (suffer from low blood pressure.) Death should follow reasonably soon. If one can puncture some vital organs, the onset of shock, and loss of blood pressure should ensue in between 15 and 180 seconds, depending on how many blood vessels have been ruptured.
Scott
Several shots in the upper thoracic cavity will generally cause sufficient blood loss to cause the victim to become hypertensive (suffer from low blood pressure.) Death should follow reasonably soon. If one can puncture some vital organs, the onset of shock, and loss of blood pressure should ensue in between 15 and 180 seconds, depending on how many blood vessels have been ruptured.
Scott
David LaPell
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I would have to look up my data for my .41 Specials, but I remember when I had my Model 57 the data was something like 900 fps for a 210 grain bullet. Recoil was about that of a .38 Special in that gun and six rounds at 25 yards had a 1-inch group. It was a sweetheart of a load and you could crank them out pretty quickly. The problem the police departments had with the .41 Magnum if I recall was that when they got the guns, they apparently also got the full power ammo, instead of a lighter load that was made for them. Officers in the cities that were used to .38 Special K frames were not at all prepared for those guns and the loads and they could hardly qualify. I had one Model 57 (wish I still had it and if the buyer of mine is reading this and still has it please PM me) that used to belong to a Vermont Constable until he retired, it was a nice gun that I wish bills had not forced me to sell.
I know that Reed's does, but I 'd like to see one of the big three companies produce it. That and a production revolver to chamber it.
SuperMan
Member
I have a long history with both rounds and guns carried for self-defense. Back in the 1980s when I was with Dallas PD we could carry either round as well as handloaded ammo. I was also a commercial loader/reloader and made up ammo for LEOs in the Dallas area that mirrors what CorBon now produces.
In the early to mid-1980s when S&W brought out their 24s and 624s I had a full set of each...4", 6.5" and the Combat Special 3". I carried the 3" 24 on duty in a specially made holster from G. William Davis. Also got them for several dozen of the guys I worked with. On duty I carried a handload with a 180 grain HydraShok (this was the original HS Corp. before they sold out to Federal) bullet with enough SR4756 to run it 1320 fps from a 6.5" barrel...or about 1200 from a 3". This bullet would turn inside-out when it hit water filled 1 quart paper oil cans. It also penetrated well as when the HP petals broke off the HS point just kept going. I still have some of these bullets and one of my friends has the 3" 624...all the rest were sold off when I went to .41 Magnum in the early 1990s.
Also carried both a Model 58 fixed sight and 57 adjustable sight 4" guns in .41 Magnum. The load was a 220 grain Keith bullet made of linotype that was as hard as steel... 8.0 grains of Unique ran the bullet at 950 fps from a 4". It duplicated the original 210 lead police load but with a harder bullet. The factory police loads would totally lead up the rifling in about two cylinders full.
The big problem with the .44 Special is that most factory loads do not expand in human bodies. A friend bought one of the Model 21 TR Specials and ran every round he could find into gallon jugs of water. None expanded to any degree including the SilverTip and the Gold Dot HP. If it won't expand in water it won't expand in a human. He went over to a 3" 629 PC and I gave him some Speer .44 Magnum 200 grain Gold Dot HP Short Barrel rounds and that are only doing 1080 from a 4" barrel and they expanded and petals broke off every time. He also liked the Remington 240 SJ HP...an old standby.
A problem with the .41 Magnum as a SD round is the lack of really good expanding bullets made for people...lots of them for hunting but most don't expand well on skinny humans... The best going right now are the Speer Gold Dot HP, Winchester 175 Silvertip and any round that is being loaded with the Barnes 185 solid copper HP (Barnes, Federal and CorBon). These rounds run in the 1300s and expand rapidly on contact.
Was talking to Peter Pi of CorBon at the SHOT Show two weeks ago and he is also a .41 person having carried a 58 on duty when he was an officer. His round of choice now is the CorBon DPX that uses the Barnes bullet....
Both are great rounds...just get a bullet that will run at least 1100 fps and will expand....
Bob
In the early to mid-1980s when S&W brought out their 24s and 624s I had a full set of each...4", 6.5" and the Combat Special 3". I carried the 3" 24 on duty in a specially made holster from G. William Davis. Also got them for several dozen of the guys I worked with. On duty I carried a handload with a 180 grain HydraShok (this was the original HS Corp. before they sold out to Federal) bullet with enough SR4756 to run it 1320 fps from a 6.5" barrel...or about 1200 from a 3". This bullet would turn inside-out when it hit water filled 1 quart paper oil cans. It also penetrated well as when the HP petals broke off the HS point just kept going. I still have some of these bullets and one of my friends has the 3" 624...all the rest were sold off when I went to .41 Magnum in the early 1990s.
Also carried both a Model 58 fixed sight and 57 adjustable sight 4" guns in .41 Magnum. The load was a 220 grain Keith bullet made of linotype that was as hard as steel... 8.0 grains of Unique ran the bullet at 950 fps from a 4". It duplicated the original 210 lead police load but with a harder bullet. The factory police loads would totally lead up the rifling in about two cylinders full.
The big problem with the .44 Special is that most factory loads do not expand in human bodies. A friend bought one of the Model 21 TR Specials and ran every round he could find into gallon jugs of water. None expanded to any degree including the SilverTip and the Gold Dot HP. If it won't expand in water it won't expand in a human. He went over to a 3" 629 PC and I gave him some Speer .44 Magnum 200 grain Gold Dot HP Short Barrel rounds and that are only doing 1080 from a 4" barrel and they expanded and petals broke off every time. He also liked the Remington 240 SJ HP...an old standby.
A problem with the .41 Magnum as a SD round is the lack of really good expanding bullets made for people...lots of them for hunting but most don't expand well on skinny humans... The best going right now are the Speer Gold Dot HP, Winchester 175 Silvertip and any round that is being loaded with the Barnes 185 solid copper HP (Barnes, Federal and CorBon). These rounds run in the 1300s and expand rapidly on contact.
Was talking to Peter Pi of CorBon at the SHOT Show two weeks ago and he is also a .41 person having carried a 58 on duty when he was an officer. His round of choice now is the CorBon DPX that uses the Barnes bullet....
Both are great rounds...just get a bullet that will run at least 1100 fps and will expand....
Bob
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Old TexMex
Member
I've just bought my first .41 magnum, a model 57 8 3/8 bbl. and the previous owner( member here) was kind enough to provide a varied selection of rounds for me to sample. I'm now shopping for reloading press(got the dies and bullet molds) and pretty excited at the prospect.
It's a great shootin iron.
It's a great shootin iron.
captainjohnsofd
Member
HYPOTENSIVE (low blood pressure)- HYPERTENSIVE (high Blood pressure)
BigBill
Absent Comrade
From the handgun hunters who hunt with the 41mag and the 44mag say the stopping power and killing power seems to be equal. The 41mag has a tad more penetration over the 44mag. I would think the 44 special would be lesser in power over the magnum rounds thus way more controllable. Doesn't the specs show the 41mag and the 44mag to be upwards of 1400fps? I do have all three calibers in N Frame models(m57, m24,m29) but i haven't shot them yet. I've only shot my M58 so far its my new CCW gun.
I been pondering getting the misses a 44special 5 shot revolver and let her shoot the 44 russians out of it if the 44 special rounds is too much for her. She is new to shooting guns & handguns and she is getting her CCW permit.
I been pondering getting the misses a 44special 5 shot revolver and let her shoot the 44 russians out of it if the 44 special rounds is too much for her. She is new to shooting guns & handguns and she is getting her CCW permit.
If you can find one of the earlier Charter Arms Bulldogs (of the 3" barreled variety) you would be amazed at how nice these older Charters shoot. The stopping power with the LSWCHP is on a par with the .45 ACP, and 5 shots from this little short-barreled revolver will generally "break off the attack." Eventually, the miscreant will fall down and "meet his Maker."
Scott
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