.41 Special vs >.41 Mag Cowboy

[Mike99]

Hello Forum - I have a S&W Pre-war 38/44 HD that was converted (not by me) to .41 caliber. The revolver's standard 38/44 HD cylinder has been bored to accommodate .41 Magnum length cartridges, and has been fitted with a S&W Model 57 barrel. Although I am (perhaps obviously) not inclined to use factory .41 Magnum ammunition in this revolver, I have fired .41 Special loads (205 grain @950 fps) successfully with no signs of overpressure issues. My question is with regard to using .41 Magnum cowboy loads (210 grain @969 fps) in the revolver. Are there significant pressure differences between the two cartridges which would make using the cowboy loads more unsafe? Disclaimer for all opinions...Mike.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
I have found that 6gr load of trailboss under a 210/220gr cast or plated
bullet , and mag or hot primer in 41 mag cases is a sweet load.
It is just enough pressure to keep your cases clean and accurate
in the 5 different guns we tried.
As to the 41 spec/ 41 cowboy similar bullet weights and speeds "usually"
means similar pressures .
The thing is, you use different powders some times because of the
the different volumes.
You can get the same speed in a 45acp with both Unique and Bullseye.
but the burn time and max pressures can be different.
Bullseye hits quick with high pressure but the time of that pressure is low[like BP] but unique burns slower and longer.
So the peak pressure need not be as high.

 

[colt_saa]

Mike,
When talking about a 41 Magnum cartridge loaded with a 200-220 grain projectile traveling at just under 1000 FPS, a converted 38/44HD should be able to shoot as many rounds as you want

Certainly none of those loads would cause catastrophic failure of the firearm no matter which brass they were loaded into.

I totally agree with your choice of avoiding full power 41 Magnum ammunition in this converted pre-war revolver

I am a 41 Magnum lover myself and most of the target ammunition I have fired over the past three+ decades falls into that same performance/pressure catagory. The big N-frams hardly look like they have been used

 

[Qc Pistolero]

I too am a .41 Mag lover and I too would suggest that you don't shoot full mag loads from that 38-44 rebored cylinder.
I would even back down from the pressure the 38-44 was loaded with since the cyl.walls are now much thinner.But I don't see why you couldn't shoot low pressure loads in it.
Starting low and keeping it there like Groo said would be,I think the way to go(his suggestion using TrailBoss seems very appropriate to me)

 

[Mike99]

For those of you that are loading the .41 Special for (say) 200 grains @ 950 fps, what do you estimate the pressure to be?

 

[SuperMan]

Mike...you have what I have been contemplating doing...finding a shooter grade grade 38-44 but having the original barrel rebored to .41 but having the cylinder rechambered to .41 Special.

How long is the barrel on your gun...can you post a picture? I am surprised that the barrel fit since the cylinder of the 38-44 is shorter than the 57 and the front sight is much taller...or was the barrel shoulder set back to correct the cylinder gap and front sight milled down...

That said I just lucked into a brand new 520/.357 Magnum barrel and may just have that rebored and screwed onto a Model 58...and round butt the frame.

As to pressure...wild guess, probably just a little more than a .44 Special factory round.

Sounds like an interesting gun...Bob

 

[Sixgun100]

Georgia Arms loads a 210 grain LSWC at 800 FPS that is a very light load that should work well for your converted revolver.

 

[Mike99]

Mike...you have what I have been contemplating doing...finding a shooter grade grade 38-44 but having the original barrel rebored to .41 but having the cylinder rechambered to .41 Special.

How long is the barrel on your gun...can you post a picture? I am surprised that the barrel fit since the cylinder of the 38-44 is shorter than the 57 and the front sight is much taller...or was the barrel shoulder set back to correct the cylinder gap and front sight milled down...

That said I just lucked into a brand new 520/.357 Magnum barrel and may just have that rebored and screwed onto a Model 58...and round butt the frame.

As to pressure...wild guess, probably just a little more than a .44 Special factory round.

Sounds like an interesting gun...Bob

Bob - Here are a couple pics of the revolver. An interesting conversion, no doubt. I wish I knew who did the work (the fellow I bought it from had no info or wouldn't say). There's a full thread on the revolver from 2011 at 38-44 Heavy Duty Identity (photo heavy). The barrel is a standard 4 inch Model 57 barrel. The sights appear to be standard N-Frame adjustables. The work is very well done. I'll send some additional photos when I get it out of the safe.

 

[Mike99]

Georgia Arms loads a 210 grain LSWC at 800 FPS that is a very light load that should work well for your converted revolver.

Looks like that would be perfect...but out of stock at present...Thanks!

 

[Mike99]

Hey Bob - Sorry I did not completely answer your question - the S&W Model 57 barrel on the revolver is 4 inches long.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

For those of you that are loading the .41 Special for (say) 200 grains @ 950 fps, what do you estimate the pressure to be?

Tough to say because:

A)depending on the powder you are loading with,since different powders don't build up pressure at the same rate(Bullseye and IMR 4227 can develop the same pressure but the first will do so much earlier in the combustion cycle while the latter will do so while the bullet will have moved further out of the case thus extending the duration of that pressure).

B)I do not think that you should rely on the people on the web to find about heavy load.Reloading manuals are safer.Most if not all of the guys(and gals)are good people here but if you happen to fall on but one!!!I'd start with the recommended loads from said manuals and then compare with recommendations of the guys.But go by the book unless you know the guy the recommendations came from.
Web is nice;books are safe!

 

[SuperMan]

Whoever did that work knew what they were doing... Was that a fixed sight 38-44 or an adjustable sight Outdoorsman?

The barrel shoulder had to be cut back to get that much shank through the frame. That means the ejector rod and centerpin had to be shortened also...then everything nickel plated...nice.

I would like to build a fixed sight slim barrel 38-44/.41 Special but may just have a parkerized 58 I have remodeled with the 520 barrel....Bob

 

[Mike99]

Tough to say because:

A)depending on the powder you are loading with,since different powders don't build up pressure at the same rate(Bullseye and IMR 4227 can develop the same pressure but the first will do so much earlier in the combustion cycle while the latter will do so while the bullet will have moved further out of the case thus extending the duration of that pressure).

B)I do not think that you should rely on the people on the web to find about heavy load.Reloading manuals are safer.Most if not all of the guys(and gals)are good people here but if you happen to fall on but one!!!I'd start with the recommended loads from said manuals and then compare with recommendations of the guys.But go by the book unless you know the guy the recommendations came from.
Web is nice;books are safe!

Sound advice my friend - thanks!

 

[Mike99]

Whoever did that work knew what they were doing... Was that a fixed sight 38-44 or an adjustable sight Outdoorsman?

The barrel shoulder had to be cut back to get that much shank through the frame. That means the ejector rod and centerpin had to be shortened also...then everything nickel plated...nice.

I would like to build a fixed sight slim barrel 38-44/.41 Special but may just have a parkerized 58 I have remodeled with the 520 barrel....Bob

Hey Bob - Yes, the work appears to be very well done. The revolver is solid and was carefully executed. I'm not sure where the builder took the ejector rod from, but the end is not knurled, so was not original. By the way, I believe the frame to be an HD because the front and back straps are smooth, as the Outdoorsman's were grooved. The adjustable rear sight is obviously from a later application, which required the builder to inlay it into the HD fixed sight frame. I actually have a new .38/44 cylinder and an Outdoorsman 6-1/2 inch barrel, so I could take the gun to another level if so moved (.44 Special?). The only down side to the work is that the chambers were rebored to accept the .41 Magnum cartridge, which I believe is too powerful for this gun (unless perhaps Cowboy Action?). Not sure what the builder was (or wasn't) thinking on that one...

 

[SuperMan]

Since the gun has been nickel finished I would not mess with it. As one of the posters above said, you'll have way more money in it than it is worth.

As to loads that the gun will handle. Besides the Cowboy Action loads the Winchester Silvertip 175 grain ammo is only pushing that bullet 1225 fps. A bullet that light when loaded all the way up easily makes 1500. CorBon has a 170 grain load doing 1275...I don't think either would hurt the gun.

I would stay away from all the 210s as they are loaded to full pressure. Any of the original 210 lead rounds from Remington or Winchester are only running 950 fps so these would be safe also. Only drawback to them is that they lead the barrels with the very soft bullets.

And just because it says "Magnum" on the case doesn't mean it is loaded to Magnum pressure. There are a number of rounds from HSM, Reeds and many of the other small ammo manufacturers that are loaded to a lower pressure.

Also remember that your gun in .44 Special is the same gun that Elmer Keith and the .44 Associates loaded 250 grain bullets to 1200+ fps with no one blowing up their guns.

I would be conservative but would not worry myself to death over your loads...

Bob

 

[Mike99]

Thanks to all for the wealth of information! Very valuable and informative!