41Rem Mag S&W Model 657-4

[The Norseman]

Looking for information and advise on a
S&W 41Rem Mag with the designated
657-4 on the frame? Good or Bad?

I've been documenting my S&Ws with the
dash's now.

Thank you in advance for your replies.

Update. Pictures below.

 

[SuperMan]

Have a 657-4 Mountain Gun and right out of the box been one of my best shooters...

Only thing I did to it was replace the trigger return spring with a 13# and polished the rebound slide...

Excellent gun...

Bob

 

[colt_saa]

I love 41 Magnums in most all of their trim. Here is a 10+ year old group photo of just 41s

I have owned 41 Magnum revolvers since 1980 I cannot recall a Smith and Wesson model 657 that I have not been pleased with

Myself, I do not put much stress on paying attention to which engineering revision (dash number) the revolver is. They are all good

Is this your first Smith and Wesson 41 Magnum?

Do you have any knowledge as to what configuration this firearm is in? Perhaps the barrel length? Which barrel profile, etc? Or if you really want information, the six digit product code also sometimes called the SKU. Or what about the asking price? And included accessories?

 

[The Norseman]

657-4

I'm holding out for a S&W 657 41Rem Mag
Mountain Gun, to match 45Colt and 44Rem
Mag M.G.s.

This one is a S&W 657-4, 41Rem Mag, 6" no
full lug barrel, circa '90s. Maybe unfired within
no box/papers. $1100. This may suffice for
now if I get it.

I have all the stuff to reload it, have been waiting
for a 41Mag.
I just don't recall if 657s had throat/barrel problems.

Thanks for all the confirmations.

 

[glenwolde]

I have a 657-3 that's right up there with the best shooting revolvers I've ever had the pleasure to fire. She has a few rough edges but shoots great offhand at 15 yards with reduced loads. I see no reason that a 657-4 would be any different. Mine has a MIM hammer and trigger, which is listed as starting with the -4, so maybe mine is at the very end of the -3's?

I can't say I'm fond of the grips or the MIM hammer and trigger but those are easy to rectify. But then again, why mess with success? I think anything I do is unlikely to improve it other than cosmetically.

I may have gave too much for it. A long time ago I traded a matte-blue 586 AND a 6" standard barrel Dan Wesson Model 15. I am happy with the deal.

 

[jaymoore]

....I just don't recall if 657s had throat/barrel problems.

Thanks for all the confirmations.

Unlike the .44 and .45 N frames that have evolved dimensionally, starting roughly in the 1990s, the .41s were "properly" dimensioned from the start.

Possibly the best N frame suited Magnum ever?

 

[colt_saa]

t

I'm holding out for a S&W 657 41Rem Mag Mountain Gun, to match 45Colt and 44Rem
Mag M.G.s.

Mountain guns are great

I have Mountain Guns in both 45 Long Colt and 41 Magnum. A blue and a stainless example of each caliber.

I never became a fan of the 44 Magnum.

As a handloader, there is nothing Dirty Harry's favorite cartridge can do better than the other two.

That is unless you only use off the shelf ammunition

If I were you shoes I would probably pick up the 6 inch revolver while keeping my eyes open for a mounting gun. You could always sell the longer barreled version somewhere down the road if you decided you didn't like it

 

[stansdds]

The big issue these days with the 41 Magnum is the ammo. It's not real popular, it can be hard to find, and when you find it, expect to pay more for it than you would for 44 Magnum ammo. The 41 Magnum has really become a reloaders cartridge.

 

[glenwolde]

The big issue these days with the 41 Magnum is the ammo. It's not real popular, it can be hard to find, and when you find it, expect to pay more for it than you would for 44 Magnum ammo. The 41 Magnum has really become a reloaders cartridge.

Part of the reason I did my trade was mine also came with 250 rounds of Georgia Arms reduced lead bullet loads (new, put up in Starline brass), one box of Speer hollow points, and a set of dies.

That gave me dies and 300 pieces of brass. I've never bought any factory ammo for it, and doubt I ever will. When I see .41 ammo it's way over $1.00 a round. At current component prices my reduced loads are about $12.50 a box. That's a crazy spread.

I find it a wonderful cartridge to reload. Much like the .38 Special, it seems that most anything you try works really well. I've settled on a sub-magnum charge of 6.3 gr of Universal with a coated 215gr SWC.

 

[BigMuddy]

I have a 657-3 that's right up there with the best shooting revolvers I've ever had the pleasure to fire. She has a few rough edges but shoots great offhand at 15 yards with reduced loads. I see no reason that a 657-4 would be any different. Mine has a MIM hammer and trigger, which is listed as starting with the -4, so maybe mine is at the very end of the -3's?

I can't say I'm fond of the grips or the MIM hammer and trigger but those are easy to rectify. But then again, why mess with success? I think anything I do is unlikely to improve it other than cosmetically.

I may have gave too much for it. A long time ago I traded a matte-blue 586 AND a 6" standard barrel Dan Wesson Model 15. I am happy with the deal.

My -3 doesn't have MIM hammer/trigger. They are case hardened carbon steel. I agree with the 41 Mag comments. I have, and have had, several and am yet to find one that doesn't shoot "lights out".

I changed out the rubber Hogues on the -3 to Ahrend's round to square conversions.

Dan

 

[glenwolde]

My -3 doesn't have MIM hammer/trigger. They are case hardened carbon steel. I agree with the 41 Mag comments. I have, and have had, several and am yet to find one that doesn't shoot "lights out".

I changed out the rubber Hogues on the -3 to Ahrend's round to square conversions.

Dan

Yeah, must be a "transitional" thing. Like they must have incorporated MIM before they ran out of -3 stamped frames? It's hard to reconcile the dates. There's a post on here about a 629 with a very close serial number CAA16XX (mine is the same) that was dated 1995/1996. Information here on the website says the -4 dates to 1997. Also that in 1996 they went to round-butt frames. Mine is a square butt. How did I get a square butt with MIM? Who knows? It really doesn't matter.

657 history info

I don't use the Houges any more. I don't really like finger grooves. I replaced them with Pachmayr Signatures because that's what I have on everything else. I have a case-hardened Full Target hammer and trigger to put in it but just haven't gotten it done.

 

[The Norseman]

Blued MGs

tMountain guns are great
I have Mountain Guns in both 45 Long Colt and 41 Magnum. A blue and a stainless example of each caliber.

The Blued S&W Mountain Gun 41Mag are
neat! In 2019 I had the opportunity to buy
one but passed, $750.

Upon my picky inspection; it was used, front
sight was canted, my straight edge indicated
the barrel was off center a minute
to the left and cylinder gap was good but
tight on one side/loose on the other.

Trigger pull was good, cylinder lock up and
timing was good as usual. Bore looked
good but needed cleaning.

Blued finish was ok, but I would have taken
better care of it. Had the plastic box and
included the original wood grips and the
nice S&W rubber grips installed. Owner
preferred the rubber grips when shooting,
the same just as I do. No wood grips for me!

Anyway could have, should have, wish now
I would have.

 

[The Norseman]

Update

Just picked it up, passed my picky inspection.
Cleaned it up a little. Not much to do.
It's like brand new.

 

[The Norseman]

Magnum side

Other side.

 

[BigMuddy]

Looks Great! My prediction: It will shoot as good as it looks.

Dan

 

[The Norseman]

41Rem Mag

Thank you. Now I got to some researching
for a reload and put together a cartridge.

 

[SuperMan]

8.0 of Unique or 7.0 of 231 give in the 900s and very pleasant to shoot...

 

[The Norseman]

XTP

Thank you. I do have Unique, and 8.0grs
sounds good to me too. I do wants something
in the 850-900fps range.

Hopefully eventually I can use the 2019 Alliant
Red Dot I got. It has worked really good in my
other Big Bores (Unique has too).

I found an unopened box of Hornady XTP
210grs .410dia. in my stuff, I bought in
May 2020. In anticipation of a 41Rem Mag.

I will get Lead cast bullets later. I prefer
shooting Lead.

Only reloading 3 to start with. Here I go!

 

[colt_saa]

For my plinking loads, I use the hard cast SWCs that drop from my mold at 215 grains over 7 grains of 231

I had been using 9 grains of Unique but it was very smokey with the lube on my projectiles, 231 greatly reduced that

My jacketed 210s are pushed by 26 grains of H110 which moves out at 1300 to over 1700 FPS depending on barrel length. Over 1350 FPS from my 6" 657

 

[SuperMan]

26 with a 210?? Most I've ever used is 23.0...26 is for the 170 Sierra..

From a 4" barrel:
8.0 of Unique runs 950
9.0 of Unique runs 1100
10.0 of Unique runs 1180

These velocities all depend on jacketed/cast and weight 200-250 grains.

 

[colt_saa]

26 with a 210?? Most I've ever used is 23.0...26 is for the 170 Sierra..

My appoligies

I was relying on my memory, now at home, I looked at my notes and you are correct. 26.5 was for my 170s. 23 was for my 210s

 

[The Norseman]

Jacketed reloads

I went through my Reloading Books again.
I also found on the internet under Castboolits
dot com a 41 Magnum load data center
thread with 30 pages. Lots of information.

Since I was try to find more info on Jacketed
bullets my 2005 Alliant Powder Reloader's
Guide and 2001 Modern Reloading by Lee
(Lee reloading dies) were the most useful.

Trying to get to that 850-900fps it looks
like I can decease Maximum Loads by
10%.
Using a 210gr .410dia Jacketed bullet,
Red Dot: 8.2(.90) is 7.3grs.
Bullseye: 8.3(.90) is 7.4grs.
Unique: 7.0grs - 8.0grs will be ok.

I'm going to try Alliant Red Dot since that
has worked well in my other big bores.
I decided to reload 6 brand new Starline
cases prepared yesterday.

Any thoughts?

Appears this Post is turning into a Reloading
Thread.

 

[The Norseman]

6 Six-shooter

Got six loaded.
41Rem Mag 210gr .410dia #41000 Horn.
Alliant Red Dot 7.2grs/CCI #300 LP/Starline
case. Crimped light. 900fps?

Thank you for reading my Posts.

 

[The Norseman]

Field Test

got to try my 41Rem Mag, 210gr .410dia #41000
Horn. XTPs, Alliant Red Dot 7.2grs/CCI #300 LP/
Starline case. Crimped light. 900fps?

Pretty uneventful, mild reload, recoil very
manageable, Target at 15ft shots were
3" low.

The CCI #300 Large Pistol primers were not
flat, cartridges appeared to seal in the
chambers, and easily came out of the
chambers.

The performance of the reload was basically
what I wanted. I going to reload a few more
to try again.

Also I'm going to try some reloads with Acme
215gr .411 dia SWC Hi-Tek Red coated Lead bullets.

Pictured, condition of Primers.

 

[The Norseman]

Seeing Red

8.0 of Unique or
7.0 of 231 give in the 900s and very pleasant to
shoot...

Thank you SuperMan for your suggestion
of 7.0grs Winchester 231 or Hodgdon HP-38.

After much research and debating which of
my powers to use, your suggestion checked
out.

Thanks Colt_SAA too.

I just reloaded 6 cases with my Acme 215gr
.411 dia SWC Hi-Tek Red coated Lead bullets.
I used my Hodgdon HP-38, 7.0grs.

 

[The Norseman]

Nice shooting Reload

Just an update. This evening I shot 3
of my Acme 215gr .411 dia SWC Hi-Tek Red
coated Lead bullets, 7.0grs HP-38 as
suggested.

The CCI #300 Large Pistol primers were not
flat, cartridges appeared to seal in the
chambers, and easily came out of the
chambers.

Pretty uneventful, mild reload, recoil very
manageable, Target at 12yds, shots were
3" low and 1" to the left.

 

[The Norseman]

Nice Reloads

I'm really satisfied with my reloads below in
my new to me S&W 657-4.
210gr .410dia #41000 Hornady XTP/Alliant
Red Dot 7.2grs/CCI #300 LP/ Starline case.
Crimped light. 900fps?

215gr .411dia SWC Hi-Tek Red coated Acme
Lead bullets/Winchester HP-38 7.0grs/CCI
#300 LP/Starline case. Crimped light. 900fps?

I shot up the small sample of reloads I had.
This time I used a table and a padded kettle
for support.
In a vintage lawn chair, I sat behind the
kettle, with arms on the support extended
forward, with wrists unsupported, and
aiming at the target.
Before this I contemplated moving the rear
sight, I'm glad I left all alone.

Carefully aiming and squeezing the trigger
the Acme SWCs shot right above center.
The 6 Hornady XTPs shot the same, a tighter
group and two bullseyes.

These groupings were better than the 3"
low and 1" to the left I was getting.
I think what I was doing in the standing offhand
position was pulling the shots down
or not squaring up my sights correctly.

Very pleased with my reloads and revolver.

Thanks for readings my posts.