44 mag--limit?

[Coffeeman]

I am new reloader... I have read several posts that the S-W 44 will handle standard loads but should "not" be loaded heavy like a Ruger Redhawk might take. Can someone assist me with these comments... what is recommended for a new 629, 6.5 barrel--for long gun life. Do these comments mean the 629 cannot comfortably take the listed max loads from reloading manuals... or does it mean something else? Is there a recommended max bullet weight recommened for 629... say 240 or even up to a 300 grain? I am using Speer and other available bullets... I don't want to needlessly stress my gun.
ALSO, some of my manuals list different minimum powder loads... is it generally ok to use the "lowest" of those published loads? Thanks for helping me learn...

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Your 629 will safely handle any load that is within SAMMI specs.Long term durability is a seperate issue.Any gun wears with use and the heavier the load,the more pronounced the wear.The Redhawk is built with more robustness in it's design.Therefore,it will tolerate a steady diet of heavy loads better.If you're going to shoot a lot,use mostly reduced loads out of empathy for the gun while reserving full loads for occasional use.

 

[PDL]

I am new reloader... I have read several posts that the S-W 44 will handle standard loads but should "not" be loaded heavy like a Ruger Redhawk might take. Can someone assist me with these comments... what is recommended for a new 629, 6.5 barrel--for long gun life. Do these comments mean the 629 cannot comfortably take the listed max loads from reloading manuals... or does it mean something else? Is there a recommended max bullet weight recommened for 629... say 240 or even up to a 300 grain? I am using Speer and other available bullets... I don't want to needlessly stress my gun.
ALSO, some of my manuals list different minimum powder loads... is it generally ok to use the "lowest" of those published loads? Thanks for helping me learn...

I'll assume from your reference to a Redhawk and the 629, that you mean .44 Magnum - right?
You should be getting a lot of answers from folks who have been reloading for years. A couple of the things folks always will tell you is the reloading data is safe in the gun they tested it with. They'll tell you it's like a cookbook, not and exact recipie. Usually, they'll suggest that you start off reducing a load by 10% and working up. Don't start with the max load listed. Any change in any material, like different bullets, or different primers also need to be stepped back and worked up to.
They'll also warn you that jacketed bullets shouldn't be reduced below starting loads. The possibility of stripping the jacket and leaving it in the barrel is a concern. Also, If you don't have someone mentoring the learning process, be careful. There's a lot of difference between a lead and a jacketed bullet even if the weights the same. Don't ask how i found that out on my first reloads.
I'm not sure where the load for a Ruger vs load for a S&W, but I think that was for older S&Ws. The solid frame Ruger was supposed to be stronger I guess. Also, some loads are listed for rifles.
Get more that one source for reloading data - more than one manual or powder maker etc. A lot of folks have been reloading .44s for quite a while and they'll be happy to share that with you as I'm sure you'll see.

 

[Skip Sackett]

New reloader's that are smart, I like that!

I am new reloader... I have read several posts that the S-W 44 will handle standard loads but should "not" be loaded heavy like a Ruger Redhawk might take. Can someone assist me with these comments... what is recommended for a new 629, 6.5 barrel--for long gun life. Do these comments mean the 629 cannot comfortably take the listed max loads from reloading manuals... or does it mean something else? Is there a recommended max bullet weight recommened for 629... say 240 or even up to a 300 grain? I am using Speer and other available bullets... I don't want to needlessly stress my gun.
ALSO, some of my manuals list different minimum powder loads... is it generally ok to use the "lowest" of those published loads? Thanks for helping me learn...

Canoe said it well. I just want to add to it a tad. The Smith & Wesson 44Mag revolver was designed for use with the maximum load first developed. It was designed to take a constant beating with loads like Elmer Keith's lead bullets and a bunch of 2400 behind them.

With time things have changed a tad. Now we have 320+gr 44 caliber bullets and a ton of different powders that can drive those slugs at tremendous velocity.

I like the Smith and Wesson M629 for aesthetics and smoothness. Nothing needed with most of them right out of the box. The cylinder will take any SAAMI load developed for the cartridge, period. Calibers that are not in the magnum category, like the 45Colt, that are built on this frame today are capable of taking the same type of pressures but that is a topic for another thread!

It's the little parts that take a pounding, not the cylinder. Sure the frame can stretch but most likely not with SAAMI spec loads. The latching mechanism and crane are a different story and need to be watched.

For the most part, use the hottest of loads sparingly. It will not only save wear and tear on the revolver, but the shooter too!


Remember this too. A tool that is used is going to need some maintenance. This M629 tool you have is going to need some maintenance too. It will be expedited if you use it for a "hammer" instead of what it was designed for!

 

[fredj338]

I've loaded for & shot the 44mag for almost 30yrs. Yes, the M29, old & new, will handle any rational load you can feed them. They will shoot loose sooner than the beefier RBH or RRH though. I have seen them go out of time, have had one M29-1 go out of time, after as few as 2000rds of max 240-250gr loads in met.sil. competition. So today my M29s get midrange stuff & my RBH get the full power 270-300gr rounds.

 

[borntoraisehogs]

Them Ruger boys is crazy and some of them think they have something to prove because their guns ain't as pretty as yours . Never swap rounds with a Super Black Hawk shooter . You might be on here lookin for a cylinder or worse . Get a rifle for you harder targets . If you like pain , I suggest a Weatherby 30-378 with a stock about a couple inches too small .

 

[Coffeeman]

Thanks for help. When I hear "SAAMI" loads, does that mean any load that does not exceed the "max" in a load chart? I do not intend on shooting continued heavy loads, but when a desired hevier powder load is desired, I am just wondering how not to exceed SAAMI.

Also, when two books list different "minimum" or starting out loads for powder, do most people feel comfortable with using 1) the minimum of those listed in different books, 2) the higher minimum of the two, 3) some number in the middle of the two?

I will be using 2400 powder, and just wondering...

Thanks for addressing such "basic" questions.

 

[Coffeeman]

May I ask a few more question from some of you experienced .44 loaders

Is there a light load for a 240 grain using 2400 (I already have a new container of 2400 powder so I would like to use it)

Without causing emotion... is there another powder type better than 2400 for "light" loads with 240 grain that is an overwhelming winner?

Thanks!!!

 

[44forever]

2400 isn't a powder normally chosen for ligt loads.

It seems to need a fair amount of preasure to burn cleanly. For moderate/midrange loads, Unique is what I use. There are a ton of loads listed for that powder in the 900 - 1100 fps range with cast 240 grain bullets.

 

[M29since14]

For a slightly reduced load, 18 grains is pretty common, and some people go as low as 15 or 16 grains. 2400 gets pretty dirty when not run at full pressure, but if you like it, that is really no problem.

Unique is the old standby for moderate 44 loads, and is still a pretty good choice. Newer alternatives, like HS-6, Universal, Win. Super Field, and a few others, probably work out better than 2400, and save some money.

I have used Unique for so long it hardly seems worthwhile to change now, but since I keep Universal around for 28 ga. skeet loading, I think I will work with it a bit and see how it turns out. For some odd reason, I seem to be getting more leading with my Unique loads these days, and I cannot explain it. It may have nothing to do with the powder.

 

[Jellybean]

I've never used 2400 so I'll let someone with experience help you with that.

When I hear "SAAMI" loads, does that mean any load that does not exceed the "max" in a load chart? I do not intend on shooting continued heavy loads, but when a desired hevier powder load is desired, I am just wondering how not to exceed SAAMI.

When a load data source claims their data is within SAMMI specifications, that means that when they tested it, under the conditions and circumstances at the time, the pressures were within specs. However there are things that will change pressures and it is possible that a load that is under specs one day may be over the next. That is why you hear all the cautions about working up to a load in increments, especially loads near the listed max. Without a means to test the pressure yourself there is no sure fire way to know exactly what pressures your loads are getting, this is where you need to use extreme caution and common sense.

I've never seen a manual that listed heavier than "standard" loads for a .44 magnum Ruger. The only caliber I can recall that had that was the .45 Colt, which is a whole different story than the .44 magnum and you must understand that the .45 Colt "Ruger Only" data isn't comparable to .44 magnum pressures. It is closer to .45 ACP +P pressures, which is about 13,000 psi lower. Exceeding maximum SAAMI .44 magnum pressures in any firearm designed for the .44 magnum is just plain foolish.

 

[running iron]

I asked the same question for loading the Hornady 300 gr. XTP for my 629-4 8 3/8. Hornady and S&W said the same thing, 19.4 grs. of 296 was a prudent place to stop. Hornady lists 19.9 of 296 and 20.1 of H110 as max for 1200 f.p.s.. This doesn't make sense because 296 and H110 are the same, but anyway. 19.4 grs. of 296 should be 1200 f.p.s. or close to it from a long barrel. Hornady used a Ruger Blackhawk with a 7 1/2" barrel for their data. So, to be safe, just back off from the max loads listed and your weapon will last a long time if every thing else you do is correct.

 

[canoe on the yukon]

I wouldn't use 2400 for a light load.It needs a certain amount of volume as well as pressure to perform properly.If you desire to use less power than the starting load in the manual,I'd recommend that you choose a faster powder.

Which powder?....Look at the data in your manuals.You should have no problem in seeing what powders will be best for this.There are so many powders available these days,it's a cause for confusion among many new reloaders.It needn't be.There is a lot of redundant duplication in all this due to powder companies in competition.

The choice is yours.I have used Unique for medium loads in the magnums for many years.2400 is excellent for full power or slightly below.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

The newer guns made since 1988 that have the endurance upgrades (those made since 1990 have all of the upgrades), will take a steady diet of full power factory equivalent loads without problem. It is when you use the -3 and older guns that problems with long term durability start.

The original gun was not designed for a steady diet of the original load, at least not by today's standards. Very few people shot more than a couple hundred rounds per year out of these guns back then, some not even that many in the entire time they owned the gun. After silhouette shooting became popular, people started firing thousands of round per year, and were finding that the S&W would go out of time, and have other issues that were not conducive to accuracy/durability. It took S&W a long time to admit they had a problem, but when sales started lagging in the 80's they had to do something so they designed the endurance package to correct these problems, and boost sales. This is all well documented, not just my opinion.


You can safely fire any load listed in today's loading manuals, but you should always work up from below max, since each gun is an individual onto itself. Never change components from what is shown, without backing off a bit first, then work back up.


231 is another great mid-range load that works about the same as Unique, but is a little cleaner.

 

[BUFF]

I have always believed that if I needed to load the .44 Magnum hotter than factory ammo, I really needed a bigger gun.

Back in the day, Elmer Keith's .44 Magnum load was 22.0 grains of H-2400, a cast 250 grain SWC bullet and a standard large pistol primer. I dropped a grain to 21.0 grains of H-2400 with my home-cast Lyman 429421 SWC's. I shot a couple of Model 29-2's for a few thousand rounds each of this load and never developed excessive headspace, endshake, timing problems or changed the barrel/cylinder gap. They felt pretty much the same as 240 grain JHP factory ammo to me, with about the same trajectories out to 200 meters.

When I shoot jacketed bullets in the .44 Magnum, I usually use another powder like W-296, but the H-2400 works very well with full charges and a good, stiff roll crimp.

Check the starting loads and maximum loads for the bullet you want to use in as many reloading manuals as you can. They all are a little bit different, but they are also generally in the same neighborhood. If one manual seems excessively higher than the others, disregard that manual for that load. A handloader can't have too many manuals.

One factor to consider is that one gun may have been put together tighter or looser than another identical gun. Some new ones I have examined were at the limits for endshake and bad timing right out of the box, or with a few hundred factory rounds through them. They aren't all the same.

 

[Coffeeman]

Thanks... I may go ahead and pick up a different can of powder for light loads and keep the 2400 for heavier loads... many seem to be using Unique for lighter loads...
I have seen bottom loads for 2400 at somewhere in the 17-18 grains in books and that seems to be in the range mentioned so it sounds like this might be a useful starting point with that powder.... I'll check the book for that also... I don't prefer dirty powder for light loads if it is easiy solved by a different powder... I can see now that I have a lot to learn and play with

 

[maglvr]

Buy a pound of UNIQUE and be hooked for life! There's a reason it's been around since the 1800's

 

[flat top]

For most of my 44 Mag loads in Smith's and Ruger SA's, I use about 10 grains of Unique and a 250 Keith, for about 1000 fps....This is the lightest load I shoot. Its an accurate load and delivers enough oomph to handle man or deer sized game...(I have taken two deer with that load, and it did a fine job). For a top end load in either gun, Keiths old load of a 250 @ 1250, will get the job done on just about anything else. If you need more pizzaz, a 300 at 1000 fps is (per Smith tech) a good top end heavy bullet load but, they say that is a maximum!!! For a Ruger Super Blackhawk that can be increased to the 1150 to 1250 mark. Any heavier weight bullets with top end loads should be reserved for the Ruger Redhawk, or the Dan Wesson revolver, Freedom Arms, etc. Its not so much about the load, but the gun you put it through. I would limit the older 29's...but, the newer 29's as G4F stated, that have the performance enhancements, will take a steady diet of SAMMI spec loads without undue wear. I got that info, the same info that G4F shared above, from the fella that runs one of the Smith Service Center's. Any gun will wear. Its just like any other machine...the more you use it the more it wears...........all you can do is take care of it, dont feed it anything that it is not built to handle, and if as the years go on it loosens up a bit, a trip back to the factory can bring it back to factory new tolerances.

 

[Coffeeman]

Thanks for all the help... I'll keep reading other posts as I get up to speed on reloading. I'll also be looking for another can of powder for some light loads. Thanks to all and I hope you have a great Christmas...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The reason so many reloaders use and recommend Unique is it's been around for a very long time and was the only game in town at one time. There are "better" powders available today that will deliver the same or better performance and do it cleaner. 2400 can be downloaded but like said above, it will work best at the higher end of it's pressure range. (like most powders) If you find Unique too dirty give HS-6 or Universal a try for middle range .44 Magnum loads.

Here's a little advice given to me by an old-timer reloader. "Load your ammo to what you need it to do and no more." I know it's fun to push the limits at times but for real world ammo, build what you need... I also suggest buying a Chrono, it's a huge aid in reloading...

Good luck, welcome to the forum and reloading.