.44 Magnum Cast load data

[Jitterbug]

Larry

Thanks for that 280 grain Beartooth load, we just canceled a September trip up to the Northern Idaho Panhandle, and I wanted to go by way of northwestern Montana to get there and hit a river or two to do some fishing, awesome country! I'd like to check out the Yak.

The in laws run a small ranch up on the Idaho/Montana/Canadian border and I really wanted to fish the Kootenai this fall, don't know if I can pull anything off in October.

 

[m657]

re: "18 year old powder"

Not sure of the 'real' authority on this, but I have a few powders that age and older, which seem to perform "as if new" regarding accuracy etc.

Have not run chrony on them however.

Our local gun club had a public chrony set up that was very useful. After the FOURTH incident of some dufus blasting the machine into pieces, the club refused to replace it yet again.

 

[Larry from Bend]

Larry

Thanks for that 280 grain Beartooth load, we just canceled a September trip up to the Northern Idaho Panhandle, and I wanted to go by way of northwestern Montana to get there and hit a river or two to do some fishing, awesome country! I'd like to check out the Yak.

The in laws run a small ranch up on the Idaho/Montana/Canadian border and I really wanted to fish the Kootenai this fall, don't know if I can pull anything off in October.

Glad to help. Marshall (who owns BearTooth) specifically recommended that bullet for my Bob Marshall pack trips and gave me loading info, also. Our rivers in this area are just starting to fish well. The VERY high water has meant everything is a month or so behind --- October (usually good anyway) might be especially good this year if the recent dry weather holds. I really like the BigHole in Sept when there's enough water, and there should be this year.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Glad to help. Marshall (who owns BearTooth) specifically recommended that bullet for my Bob Marshall pack trips and gave me loading info, also. Our rivers in this area are just starting to fish well. The VERY high water has meant everything is a month or so behind --- October (usually good anyway) might be especially good this year if the recent dry weather holds. I really like the BigHole in Sept when there's enough water, and there should be this year.

The Bob Marshall is no place to get stuck with the wrong bullet/firearm combination either! I have a friend that lives in Florence that hunts there too. DUDE!

He tells of a time when they were back in the deep and a helicopter came overhead with a net hanging. In the net was a bear that was taken from someplace else that had been bad!
Imagine, being back there close to where they dropped an already angry bear!

Gotta be serious when you go there! Come Back, Larry!

 

[Jitterbug]

Larry good to know, we were up in late May and the water was high, we put on the rain gear and fished a few lakes way up north in the Idaho panhandle and did very well.

I just got off the phone with Beartooth, they are out of stock on the 250 Keith's, so I told the gal to ship me some 250 grain WFNGC instead, she thought she'd be able to ship those, the 280's and some 200 grain 10mm's tomorrow.

 

[Jitterbug]

A bear in a net...now that's gotta be one of those sights you'd never forget.

 

[Larry from Bend]

The Bob Marshall is no place to get stuck with the wrong bullet/firearm combination either! I have a friend that lives in Florence that hunts there too. DUDE!

He tells of a time when they were back in the deep and a helicopter came overhead with a net hanging. In the net was a bear that was taken from someplace else that had been bad!
Imagine, being back there close to where they dropped an already angry bear!

Gotta be serious when you go there! Come Back, Larry!

That air-borne Griz must have been a sight. We've had 'em run the horses off at night and have seen them from the trail and have seen trees where Fish & Game has snared them. No problems really -- so far. In our group of 4, I'm the only one that carries a sidearm and I got kidded some for doing it until we were out in the middle of the night looking for horses with flashlights after 2 Griz had just run them off. Suddenly I became very popular with my campmates.

There are more of them every year. We even have Griz out here on the prairie now. These are two 2-3 year olds about 4 miles from our house.

We have a Moose or three every year. They'll hang around for several days sometimes.

 

[Jitterbug]

When I was up last May there was an article in a Missoula newspaper about the bear population in Glacier overflowing into the valley below Flathead Lake.

A long with sows and cubs, holing up in the willows during the day and then causing havoc with chicken coops etc. during the night. Also a story about a guy who was attacked and shot a Sow with a handgun while picking up Elk sheds.

Nice photo's by the way.

Grizz historically did roam the plains from what I've read.

 

[Larry from Bend]

We've had Griz out here for 3 Summers now --- for the first time in 70+ years according to Fish & Game, although when Lewis & Clark came thru, the Griz were thick --

These Griz have been young males that have been forced to find new digs by older Boars. This year, however, a Sow and Cubs have been seen North of us.

Unfortunately, last Summer a young male started eating a neighbor's chickens and F&G killed him because he had a record with them. I don't mind having them around but my wife no longer takes her long walks thru the fields as before. Actually, what finally stopped her was another neighbor seeing a Cougar with the rear half of an Antelope in its jaws about 2 miles from the house --- that did it for her!

 

[Jitterbug]

Good info on the wildlife in Montana Larry I need to get up there more often. Yep, it's nice seeing them, but there is an overcrowding issue as I'm sure your aware, we have the same issue in Colorado with lions, moose and black bears.

I do get concerned about my 77 year old MIL running around up there, she's out picking Huckleberry's at this time of year, no worry's she says, she packs her Taurus .22 Magnum...FIL backs her up with his old Colt SA 44-40...worked for his dad for years...their both tough as nails...I just shake my head.

Smith, I want to Thank you for recommending Loaddata.com, I've just spent the past 2+ hours going through .44 data, this is going to be one of the best $29.95 spent on reloading in a while, great resource man!

I talked to Accurate Arms, they tell me their powders are good for a 30 year shelf life as long as there isn't signs of degradation. He also said load data today is good for the 18 year old powders, I asked specifically about #9 and #2. I used to use the #2 for a plinking load years ago and have over a pound left.

Beartooth was out of the 250 Keiths so I went with a 250 grain WFNGC instead. UPS says the Beartooths will arrive on Friday.

Man with all the choices in Loaddata, I can tell I'm going to be busy for awhile, but I've narrowed it down to AA9 for a weekend shoot, for both the 250 and 280, I started getting enthusiastic and wanted to try a couple of powders until I realized I'd be doing a lot of shooting and I haven't run any hot 44 loads for many years, so I've decided to pick one powder for now and work up to it.

I've got some warm 10mm and .45acp to run through a new Chrono too and the wife wants to go fishing in the afternoon, she can take only so much shooting.

The 2400 and H110 will have to wait for another day.

 

[Skip Sackett]

AA#9 is not my only choice for 44mag loads. It is a great powder for them though. H110/W296 is my favorite for handguns while Lil' Gun is for carbine rifles with jacketed bullets. Even in 357Mag. I have a 357Mag 158gr load that gives me bottom end 35 Remington performance from the wife's Marlin 1894.

H110/W296 for those super hot 45Colt loads too, jacketed or cast.

Have fun. You are both welcome and thanks for the kind comment. Loaddata.com is a wealth of info for the serious handloader. Reloaders, and there is a difference, can get all they need out of just about any manual!

 

[Jitterbug]

After sleeping on it, I think I'm going to go 2400 with the 250's, for nostalgia sake, that is after I talk to Alliant today. Although from what I've read, Alliant claims there is no difference between H2400 and A2400...and of course I've read otherwise.

But, I'm not planning on loading barn burners...yet, I'll just feel more comfortable talking to them and receiving their blessings on 18 year old Hercules powder, one can is still sealed the other about 1/2 full.

Then I plan on giving H110/296 a try, I wanted milder for my reintroduction to the .44 Magnum, especially since my use in a 4" is next to none. AA9 and 2400 will let me do that more so then H-110

I've also read some good things about Vihtavuori in the .44 and may give that a try down the road.

I already have almost a dozen or more manuals, so for $30, Loaddata is a great resource and will prove invaluable for all the calibers I load for, I only wish I had subscribed sooner! Great tip!

 

[MMA10mm]

If there is some experimental itches needing to be scratched, be SURE to try 4227. It is a sleeper of a powder in the 44 Mag. It's been consistently the most-accurate powder I've ever tried in the 44, it gives very high velocities at moderate pressures, and it burns just slow enough that there's darn few combinations where you can fit enough of that powder in the case to get an over-pressure situation, so you get the 100% loading density without max pressures. It's a great powder. My only reason for going with AA#9 is for running through my progressive press and consolidating my powder magazine.

 

[Warren Sear]

MMA10MM, do you have any load data for 4227 (I assume IMR 4227) for use with a 310 grain cast bullet with G/C (Lee mold)?

Also, does anyone know of load data for the same bullet with 2400 powder?

 

[MMA10mm]

MMA10MM, do you have any load data for 4227 (I assume IMR 4227) for use with a 310 grain cast bullet with G/C (Lee mold)?

Also, does anyone know of load data for the same bullet with 2400 powder?

Not specifically for that bullet, but if we go to the Hodgdon Data Center, there are three loads for bullets heavier than that one, all of which carry a gas-check, so pressures will be same or lower with the Lee bullet, as long as we watch the OAL and not seat too deeply...

325gr. LFN-GC IMR-4227 1.730" OAL START: 17.0gr 1041fps 19,200 CUP MAX: 21.0gr(C) 1278fps 34,200 CUP
330gr. LFN-GC IMR-4227 1.730" OAL START: 18.0gr 1132fps 25,900 CUP MAX: 20.7gr(C) 1278fps 34,200 CUP
355gr. LFN-GC IMR-4227 1.710" OAL START: 17.5gr 1125fps 28,100 CUP MAX: 19.0gr 1223fps 37,800 CUP

These 1.730" OALs are really long in my opinion (probably for Ruger-length cylinders). Since you're going down in weight 15grs, we could shorten that OAL up a little. (I like around 1.625" with an LFN/WFN.) There's no formula I know of for correlating OAL with bullet weight for estimating load data. I'd probably start around 16.0grs and work up from there with a chronograph and micrometer measuring the web, as described by Ken Waters in his Pet Loads book. Once getting to around 1250 fps I'd be happy, even if the case web said there was still more room to go... (Personally, I believe you'll run out of room in the case for powder to get to a true max-pressure load anyway...) Also, I treat my S&Ws like thoroughbreds and only push hot loads ocassionally (why I'd get satisfied with 1250fps and not push farther), so I'd probably stop around 20.0grs, which at the slightly shorter OAL would probably be really close to 1200-1250fps.

 

[trulyapostolic]

Jititerbug, given your desired application... I would load the 280 WFNGC bullet over the 250. You'll need the deep penetration that these bullets can provide over some of the other styles being shown in this post.
Unfortunately, I can't help you with load data for H110 or 296. But, I've had very good results with VV N110. I've pushed 320 gr. Penn bullets close to 1300 fps out of my 8 3/8" barrel 629. That gun also loves 265 gr. WFNGC bullets. Either of those loads shoot inside of 3" @ 100 yards using N110 and Federal magnum primers. You'll have to work up loads specific to your gun but I would think you'll want to load anything to max. If you're dealing with an angry moose or charging bear, recoil will be the last thing on your mind.

 

[Jitterbug]

Good points and I'll be considering N110 and 4227, IMR I believe? I'm going from memory which is fogged more then usual this early.

A downside to VV powders is a lack of data, but I read an article on the Beartooth website praising the virtues of N110 and of course there is the VV online data, and I may be able to find more. I've read it has less blast and flash for the same velocity verses H110/296.

I don't recall if the Beartooth article mentioned 280's.

VV has a 267 gr. Intercast SWC, to extrapolate from.

I have no idea how I'm going to handle heavy recoil in the 4" 629 at this point, but I'll know better after Sunday morning, I'm a hunter and I agree recoil will go unnoticed at the moment of truth if it ever comes to that.

However I want to know exactly where the bullet is hitting and have a reasonable level of comfort with the load before I choose one, which means I'll need to shoot it a bit.

At the end of the day, I'll give up a bit of energy over shot placement if need be.

I'm not planning on an encounter, such as hunting and I've been successful at staying out of the way of Moose and bear...so far.

But the way I figure it, even if I can only handle the 250 @ 1100 fps or so it's still a better option then my 10mm with a 200 @ 1100 fps.

We'll see, I've found in other calibers the heavyweights are not as bad as one would think, the recoil may be there but it's more of a shove then a snap, I'll take shove over snap any day.

If all goes well, I may even go up to a 300, I agree the heavier bullet will likely give best penetration.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Been playing with the venerable 45Colt. That is very doable with it too. Only, you get a bigger diameter, .429" versus .452", heavier bullets as normal and that 1100fps can be achieved from a 5" barrel. I have a 280gr cast bullet that is just the ticket for your needs!

It is a copy of the RCBS 45-270SAA. There are three levels of loading for that bullet on loaddata.com. Standard (14,000psi), medium (20,000psi) and Ruger only loads (32,000psi). The 32,000psi loads are enough to get anything done in the lower 48 +++++++.

Take a look at them and then you may take a trip to the local pusher and get a Redhawk!

 

[Jitterbug]

Ya, there was a very nice used 4" .45 Colt Redhawk at the local funshop a couple of days after I picked up the 629.

My timing is impeccable.

I handled it and I liked it, it had a standard Houge grip on it, nice trigger and was in nice shape, I can't recall the price but it was good and a lot less then I paid for the Smith. I hate to say it, but it fit me better then the Smith too, (probably the open backstrap on the Houge) and the DA trigger was sweeter then my new 629.

I've also passed on a used Mountain gun or two in .45 Colt.

My only reason was because I have about 400-500 pieces of .44 brass, dies and 750 or so assorted .44 bullets. Otherwise I'd have give the .45 Colt a long hard look. Seems like it will do anything a .44 Magnum will and some say even better...

Now getting back into big bores, I'll be considering a .45 at some point down the road...don't know how soon with this crummy economy, but some day.

UPS changed delivery status and said no delivery of bullets today, bummer.

Now I have to wait until Monday, which changes the shoot plans for this coming Sunday, I spoke to a nice guy at Alliant who assured me my 18 year old Hercules 2400 was GTG and current load data is fine.

He suggested using 14-15.7 grains from a Lyman Manual for a 300 grain bullet for my 280 grain BTB. I haven't confirmed that, although I did find a couple of 280/300/2400 .44 Mag. loads on Loaddata with a max of 18.0 grains.

But, I'm planning on using AA9 for the 280 anyway and the 2400 for the 250 grainer.

 

[Skip Sackett]

You will be just fine with the Smith, I believe. It is hard to believe that any Ruger has a nicer trigger than a Smith, but, maybe it had some work done to it.

I don't have any double action Rugers, um, yet, but their single actions are tanks. I have a cool one right now that is a 4 Convertible, 45ACP/45Colt. Same principle as their 22LR/22Mag Single Six.

That gun is a bit impracticable for a defensive firearm in the wild, since it is single action and hard to get the hammer back should that hand end up in a bears mouth!

But I'll tell you what it will do, and do it just fine, shoot any one of John Linebaugh's 4 Colt loads! It has a 5 1/2" barrel and can launch a 240gr bullet at 1200 -1400fps depending on the charge and powder type used! Nice thing about it, it will push that same bullet real nice @ 900fps too! (And yes, I put Hogue grips on it and the recoil from those +1100fps loads are punishing!)

At any rate, you will enjoy the 44Mag too. It will git r did as well and with that M629, with class!

Have fun!

Be safe!

I need to come out there and take a hike or two with you though! I'll bring my M629 Classic with it's 5" barrel and it's companion, Marlin 1894 in the same caliber.




p.s. Did you look at those loads in Load Data for the 44Mag +P loadings? There are loads there from 270gr to 340gr and some are smokin' hot from a 7 1/2" bbl Ruger. Something to think about.