44 magnum gold engraved HELP!
- Thread starter Kyle6547
- Start date
Additional digging
Angelo bee is the only one that I've seen
That does the LOOP on the spin chamber
His work still looks VERY similar to this
I'm not saying it is his but I can't rule him out til
An expert declares what it is
Angelo bee is the only one that I've seen
That does the LOOP on the spin chamber
His work still looks VERY similar to this
I'm not saying it is his but I can't rule him out til
An expert declares what it is
YeshuaIsa53
Member
Think I saw the two gold animals on another gun, with a hint of difference.
That may have been here on one of Richard's guns? Maybe one each on two guns?
That may have been here on one of Richard's guns? Maybe one each on two guns?
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Welcome to the forum!
That is a fun gun. I have seen your gun's animal patterns on other engraved guns. Arnold Griebel engraved many gold animals and his animals have been used as inspiration for many engravers. But your gun was not engraved by Mr. Griebel. Without any identifying engraver marks, it is difficult to confirm engravers, but like several of the above have said, it could be an R.E.I. engraver. However, the pattern is different from a lot of the R.E.I. attributed engraving that I have seen. I do not believe it is an Ogawa engraved gun - he generally signed his work. I don't think it is Angelo Bee's work, unless you find the stamped "ABee" or his stamp of a bee, usually in the bottom of the left side of the frame... (also, his animals were a bit more refined).
Roger Bleile is a great resource - I too have had him try and help with several of my guns.
Thanks for sharing!
That is a fun gun. I have seen your gun's animal patterns on other engraved guns. Arnold Griebel engraved many gold animals and his animals have been used as inspiration for many engravers. But your gun was not engraved by Mr. Griebel. Without any identifying engraver marks, it is difficult to confirm engravers, but like several of the above have said, it could be an R.E.I. engraver. However, the pattern is different from a lot of the R.E.I. attributed engraving that I have seen. I do not believe it is an Ogawa engraved gun - he generally signed his work. I don't think it is Angelo Bee's work, unless you find the stamped "ABee" or his stamp of a bee, usually in the bottom of the left side of the frame... (also, his animals were a bit more refined).
Roger Bleile is a great resource - I too have had him try and help with several of my guns.
Thanks for sharing!
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Cotis
Member
Beautiful engraved revolver. Question from a neophyte - how does one even find guns like this to purchase? I work a full time job, never know about these auction house sales until someone posts a score from one of them. So basically if it isn't on the big popular one or two sites I just don't know about it.
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As a complete aside, RKmesa is much too polite to tell you, better pictures are taken in the complete absence of direct lighting. Try some outside on a nice day----in the shade----or better yet, inside with a light box.
Me----I'm nowhere near too polite, and not much of a photographer either; but I know what I know.
Ralph Tremaine
Me----I'm nowhere near too polite, and not much of a photographer either; but I know what I know.
Ralph Tremaine
Sometimes they turn up on the big auction sites. RIA and the other auction houses usually have some too. There were several by Russ Smith in the recent RIA auction but weren't bargains, from my perspective anyway. A pre-29 for $11,750 with no inlays and a pair of 53s one blue with gold inlays for $9988 and a nickel one without inlays for $12,925. Of course nice engraved pieces by unknown or lesser known engravers can be found for a lot less.
If you're an SWCA member and attend the annual Symposiums (June, Tulsa) there are usually some engraved pieces for sale there too (just one of the benefits of being a SWCA member).
Jeff
SWCA #1457
The inlays strike me as done as 'copies' of similar poses done by
Alvin Alexander White.
Not a bad engraver to pick as a personal hero.
At least I seem to recall that AAW did those small animals and in those poses in his work in gold inlay. Maybe I'm confusing him with someone else, but I don't think so.
The detailing, shaping & shading on these does not make it as far as top quality.
The work appears to be Hammer& Chisel work, at least from what I can see in some of the pucs. That stands out from the much more prevalent use of Air-Assist Engraving tools these days.
There are some that continue to learn and use H&Chisel. But the vast majority start with and use Air Assist tools straight through their career.
The first really popular Air Assist Tools came on the market in the early 70's.
The background tree limb(s) for the 'cat' are simplistic at best being just some crosshatch line work. Quick fast fill-in work. No effort to make the area with-in the lines that tell you it's a tree limb that it's a tree limb.
Lots of empty space in the pattern taken up with punchwork stippeling.
Make the scroll work fuller and add to it instead of stippeling the background away.
The grips are either a different set that the engraving was designed around, or the engraver didn't trace the upper curve outline carefully to layout the spacing betw the edge of the side plate engraving and the edge of the grip(s).
Scroll pattern is OK. Single line graver shading cut. Scroll could be fuller in style IMO as I noted, but style is style and everyone cuts and designs differently.
A little heavy handed on the post engraving/cutting polish especially on the bbl where the cuts and lettering look worn over.
Who did the engraving?,,Who knows.
W/O some marking or direct evidence leading to an engraver or shop..it's usually a guess. Some are better than others. Some are the usual few popular names.
The usual names come up often but don't forget there are and have been 100's,, and likely more engravers capable of this work in the USA in the last 60+ yrs.
Many were/are unkn's working as a hobby. Never on a professional level or even part time.
Others did work part time at it and some tried full time.
They didn't all make magazine covers, or have elaborate displays at LV.GunShow.
Before the Net, no one would know who you were unless someone of note in the firearms publication or custom/mfg biz gave you a spotlight
Lot of them came and went in a short time, even more recently, leaving the trade after a taste of it never to return. Some doing very nice work and could have gone on to do spectacular work. But the desire to continue just wasn't there.
It's not an easy road. Plus there's more $$ in a lot of other jobs.
Alvin Alexander White.
Not a bad engraver to pick as a personal hero.
At least I seem to recall that AAW did those small animals and in those poses in his work in gold inlay. Maybe I'm confusing him with someone else, but I don't think so.
The detailing, shaping & shading on these does not make it as far as top quality.
The work appears to be Hammer& Chisel work, at least from what I can see in some of the pucs. That stands out from the much more prevalent use of Air-Assist Engraving tools these days.
There are some that continue to learn and use H&Chisel. But the vast majority start with and use Air Assist tools straight through their career.
The first really popular Air Assist Tools came on the market in the early 70's.
The background tree limb(s) for the 'cat' are simplistic at best being just some crosshatch line work. Quick fast fill-in work. No effort to make the area with-in the lines that tell you it's a tree limb that it's a tree limb.
Lots of empty space in the pattern taken up with punchwork stippeling.
Make the scroll work fuller and add to it instead of stippeling the background away.
The grips are either a different set that the engraving was designed around, or the engraver didn't trace the upper curve outline carefully to layout the spacing betw the edge of the side plate engraving and the edge of the grip(s).
Scroll pattern is OK. Single line graver shading cut. Scroll could be fuller in style IMO as I noted, but style is style and everyone cuts and designs differently.
A little heavy handed on the post engraving/cutting polish especially on the bbl where the cuts and lettering look worn over.
Who did the engraving?,,Who knows.
W/O some marking or direct evidence leading to an engraver or shop..it's usually a guess. Some are better than others. Some are the usual few popular names.
The usual names come up often but don't forget there are and have been 100's,, and likely more engravers capable of this work in the USA in the last 60+ yrs.
Many were/are unkn's working as a hobby. Never on a professional level or even part time.
Others did work part time at it and some tried full time.
They didn't all make magazine covers, or have elaborate displays at LV.GunShow.
Before the Net, no one would know who you were unless someone of note in the firearms publication or custom/mfg biz gave you a spotlight
Lot of them came and went in a short time, even more recently, leaving the trade after a taste of it never to return. Some doing very nice work and could have gone on to do spectacular work. But the desire to continue just wasn't there.
It's not an easy road. Plus there's more $$ in a lot of other jobs.
^^^ That is a very nice assessmnet, 2152hq. The only thing I would add is what appears to be dissimilar coloring from the re-blue. This is unfortunately a common occurrence but, for me at least, it has a significant effect on desirability.
What's it worth? As the saying goes, it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. In the case of an auction, it's worth what two people are willing to run it up to unless you start with a hefty reserve.
As far as value, it's a desirable model, caliber and barrel length. The engraving and inlays are certainly eye catching. As 2152hq has alluded to, however, there are several factors which will affect value. The engraving and inlays are good but not master level. The color variations in the bluing and the fact that the engraver is unknown affect value as well.
I'll take a stab at it. Others may think I'm being too conservative, but I would value the pistol in the $4,500 to $7,000 range depending on how it was marketed and sold. The $7,000 price being in a nationally advertised auction including buyers fees and the lower end being a private sale or a local auction.
I was once told by a gun dealer that it's much easier to buy a gun than it is to sell it. In this case, you need someone willing to open up his wallet and hand you thousands of dollars for your pistol. I have found that those willing to spend that kind of money get rather particular about the details mentioned above.
If this was my grandfather's pistol, I wouldn't worry about the value because it would not be for sale.
What's it worth? As the saying goes, it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. In the case of an auction, it's worth what two people are willing to run it up to unless you start with a hefty reserve.
As far as value, it's a desirable model, caliber and barrel length. The engraving and inlays are certainly eye catching. As 2152hq has alluded to, however, there are several factors which will affect value. The engraving and inlays are good but not master level. The color variations in the bluing and the fact that the engraver is unknown affect value as well.
I'll take a stab at it. Others may think I'm being too conservative, but I would value the pistol in the $4,500 to $7,000 range depending on how it was marketed and sold. The $7,000 price being in a nationally advertised auction including buyers fees and the lower end being a private sale or a local auction.
I was once told by a gun dealer that it's much easier to buy a gun than it is to sell it. In this case, you need someone willing to open up his wallet and hand you thousands of dollars for your pistol. I have found that those willing to spend that kind of money get rather particular about the details mentioned above.
If this was my grandfather's pistol, I wouldn't worry about the value because it would not be for sale.
I concur with 444 Magnum on the value. I'd pay $4k for it without thinking about it long. I wouldn't be surprised to see it go for $7k at an RIA auction but then again it might go for $4k there too, just depends on who and how many are interested. If you're going to sell it, and again I agree with 444 Magnum that if it was my grandads it wouldn't be for sale at any price, you might try it here in the Classified section. Just list it for what you're willing to take and see if it sells. If not, nothing lost and no cost, and you can try elsewhere. Good luck.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
Jeff
SWCA #1457
