44 Magnum: standard vs. +P vs. bullet weight and pistol wear

[The_Truth]

I've been thinking about it, and decided I'd make a thread to see what folks more experienced than me may think about an issue I've created for myself.

I have a 29-3 3" that is my woods primary carry sidearm. I exclusively carry Buffalo Bore +P 240gr LSWCHC "Deer Grenades." These rounds are super hot. I don't regularly shoot them for practice, just a couple rounds here and there to make sure I still know my POI, otherwise I plink with 44spl. They are loaded hot enough that I feel like the gun may wear excessively, but truthfully I don't shoot enough volume in 44 Magnum that I ever really gave it much second thought.

Anyway, to get to the point, would I be putting less wear and tear on the pistol by shooting 300gr SJHPs in a hot loaded regular pressure configuration as opposed to the +P 240gr LSWCHCs? I hunt the woods of central/western Virginia just to give y'all an idea of my application. No grizzlies, so I really have no need for a heavy hardcast bullet. I'm more likely to use my 44 to kill a deer or a black bear than defend myself against a threat, but there are definitely black bears on the land I hunt so there is always that possibility if I happen to get between Mama and baby for some unfortunate reason.

The 300gr loading I'm looking at is an Underwood offering as opposed to Buffalo Bore. Unfortunately I don't reload, but I've accepted what I've gotten myself into cost-wise as far as boutique ammo goes.

TL;NR Does a 240gr +P put more wear on a 29-3 3" than a regular pressure 300gr SJHP, both cartridges being hot loaded by a boutique ammo manufacturer?

Thanks for any and all input.

 

[robertrwalsh]

My guess, for what that may be worth to you. is that a higher velocity round loaded to a higher pressure with a lighter bullet would be harder on the pistol than a heavier round loaded to a lower pressure and therefore lower velocity.

 

[The_Truth]

My guess, for what that may be worth to you. is that a higher velocity round loaded to a higher pressure with a lighter bullet would be harder on the pistol than a heavier round loaded to a lower pressure and therefore lower velocity.

I tend to be of the same opinion.

 

[Fishinfool]

A couple thoughts from a long time .44 mag fan.

There is no established pressure rating for plus P in the .44 magnum.

Any full power plus load is going to increase wear on your gun as compared to a standard factory load.

Your dash 3 gun does not have the endurance package, which came about because of issues using loads like you mention in N frames.

Now for the real point - For deer and black bear, you do not need anything more than a standard .44 mag loading - a 240 grain bullet at about 1250 fps. I have killed dozens of deer, and a couple black bears with .44 mag handguns, and never felt the need for hot, or heavy bullet loads in that caliber for the game mentioned.

For a non-reloader, I would look at the Hornady factory 240 grain XTP loading. The XTP is one heck of a hunting bullet (expands, holds together, and penetrates). Its my choice of bullet in my hunting handloads, loaded to about factory Hornady velocities. Another good load is the standard WW White Box 240 grain SP load.

Larry

 

[bigggbbruce]

TL;NR Does a 240gr +P put more wear on a 29-3 3" than a regular pressure 300gr SJHP, both cartridges being hot loaded by a boutique ammo manufacturer?

Thanks for any and all input.

My guess, for what that may be worth to you. is that a higher velocity round loaded to a higher pressure with a lighter bullet would be harder on the pistol than a heavier round loaded to a lower pressure and therefore lower velocity.

Your question is confusing.. regular pressure 300gr.. but both hot loaded..

I agree with robertwalsh as well.

 

[The_Truth]

Your question is confusing.. regular pressure 300gr.. but both hot loaded..

I agree with robertwalsh as well.

The 300gr loading is from Underwood, so I would assume it's loaded a little bit hotter than your average 300gr loading off the shelf. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[k22fan]

S&W was forced to re-engineer their Model 29 and add the endurance package because recoil from silhouette competitors' heavy bullet loads was causing the cylinders to skip chambers and sometimes fly open. Part of the package was hardening the yoke because the recoil from heavy bullets was beating yoke tubes shorter causing excess head space. However, "+P" lighter bullet loads probably do erode forcing cones faster.

The Small Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute does not have a higher pressure standard for "+P" .44 Magnum. By using that made up name Buffalo Bore is admitting that they are loading to pressures above industry standards. I have not seen them admit how far over the limit they load.

 

[Pisgah]

Self-created issues can only be resolved by yourself. Shoot the gun to destruction with one load, get another gun and shoot it to destruction with the other load, and let us know what you learn...

I'll bet the first report will be, "I ruined my hands and wrists..."

 

[The_Truth]

To be honest, I'm considering just carrying a 5 shot 44spl. Or just carrying standard pressure 44mag in my 29. It's really a non-issue, just something to talk about on a Saturday afternoon. My 29 is still pretty minty too, I think I'm just now going through the process of deciding not to carry the nuclear rounds in it anymore.

 

[rockquarry]

I no longer load or shoot .44 Magnum ammo but did for at least forty years. I can't imagine a real advantage that a 300 grain bullet would have over a 250 grain bullet unless ranges were extreme; the heavier bullet would likely retain more energy. That's probably a very small, specialized niche that the heavier bullet would be filling.

 

[bigggbbruce]

The 300gr loading is from Underwood, so I would assume it's loaded a little bit hotter than your average 300gr loading off the shelf. Maybe I'm wrong.

That being the question.. then I would not like 'Hot" 300gr and that would be out of my 7 1/2" weighted barrel 629..

 

[Dump1567]

To be honest, I'm considering just carrying a 5 shot 44spl. Or just carrying standard pressure 44mag in my 29. It's really a non-issue, just something to talk about on a Saturday afternoon. My 29 is still pretty minty too, I think I'm just now going through the process of deciding not to carry the nuclear rounds in it anymore.

Bingo!

Here's a good article to read (although about the .45 Colt):
linebaughsixguns | Writings

And here's a quote from the author:

I have personally taken about 10 antelope and 1 mule deer with a .45 Colt. My boys have taken around 6 antelope and 5 mule deer with their .45 Colts. They use a 4 3/4" Colt SA and the handload is a 260 Keith cast at 900 fps. This load will shoot lengthwise of antelope and mule deer at 100 yards. In my estimation it kills as well as the .270, 30-06 class rifles if the shots are placed properly. If I were hunting heavier game I'd step up the velocity to 1200 fps and in extreme circumstances, (elk, hogs, bear) go to the 310 gr cast slug. This load, 310 at 1200 will go through elk like so much air. These loads can be managed by anyone who is serious about handgunning big game. The .45 gives them a minimum of recoil and blast. I think the .45 Colt has a lot to do with this as it gives them big bore power without big bore recoil and blast.

I think the jist is, we get caught-up in the power race far beyond what is even practical for our actual needs. I do the same thing. I think a 240 gr. bullet traveling around 900 to 1,000 fps would serve you well in any situation you might encounter in your area. And without excessive wear on your gun, body, and hearing.

 

[trapper9260]

I would use just regular loads in my 44 mag RH 7 1/2" It is something when I shoot 310grs Lee cast boolit. It would be shot placement .I rather shoot that round in my marlin it is easyer to handle Like was stated run hot rounds wear gun and case down faster.

 

[Echo40]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, these so-called (i.e. unofficial) "+P" loads boutique ammo manufacturers are offering as well as +P+ loads are just trying to turn a cartridge into something it's not, and if you feel that more is needed over Standard Pressure or SAAMI Spec +P loads, then buy a new firearm chambered in a more powerful cartridge.

Full power .44 Magnum loads are already sufficient for all North American game, regardless of what some folks who have never set foot in the wilderness, much less seen a bear outside of a zoo may assert.
But hey, if you feel that more power is necessary, then by all means go out and buy yourself a new firearm chambered in .454 Casull, .460 S&W Magnum, .500 S&W Magnum, or whatever you please, but don't go ruining a perfectly good .44 Magnum Revolver by stuffing it full of overpressure ammo just because some folks on the internet are convinced that Bears are some sort of mythical creature who is all but impervious to damage from mortal weaponry.

 

[The_Truth]

And here's a quote from the author:


I think the jist is, we get caught-up in the power race far beyond what is even practical for our actual needs. I do the same thing. I think a 240 gr. bullet traveling around 900 to 1,000 fps would serve you well in any situation you might encounter in your area. And without excessive wear on your gun, body, and hearing.

That's exactly it. I thought I wanted the biggest baddest hot roddin'-est 44 snubbie in the whole wide universe, when really, the wear and tear on the gun just isn't worth it, especially if I'll be carrying my rifle too most of the time anyway. Plus, I live in VA, not AK.

I appreciate all the guidance. I love my 44s!

 

[epj]

The 3” barrel is likely a limiting factor anyway.

 

[M29since14]

In a 6-1/2” Model 29, here in Indiana, the chronograph says 19.0 grs of #2400 shoves a ~270 gr cast bullet out of the muzzle at 1230-1240 FPS. (Either the Lyman 429244 gas check or the H&G #326 bullet. Both good.) That’s plenty of .44 Magnum. Why abuse your hands and wrists for an insignificant increase? Forget about the gun - it’s not important. You can buy replacement guns.

I agree with others who have already said, use the gun as it was intended, within factory/industry pressure limits. Need more power, select different gun. Freakish ammunition and attendant freakish prices... what a great combination.

 

[Nevada Ed]

It always gets me with people shooting the 44 Magnum.........

Some do not know or realize that the "Standard" 44 Magnum load is already at a +P rating with fps and energy.

To add more fps to a load is just more punishment on you and the weapon.............
or move up to a 50 cal. and man up!!

 

[Suburbanite]

A couple thoughts from a long time .44 mag fan.

There is no established pressure rating for plus P in the .44 magnum.

Any full power plus load is going to increase wear on your gun as compared to a standard factory load.

Your dash 3 gun does not have the endurance package, which came about because of issues using loads like you mention in N frames.

Now for the real point - For deer and black bear, you do not need anything more than a standard .44 mag loading - a 240 grain bullet at about 1250 fps. I have killed dozens of deer, and a couple black bears with .44 mag handguns, and never felt the need for hot, or heavy bullet loads in that caliber for the game mentioned.

For a non-reloader, I would look at the Hornady factory 240 grain XTP loading. The XTP is one heck of a hunting bullet (expands, holds together, and penetrates). Its my choice of bullet in my hunting handloads, loaded to about factory Hornady velocities. Another good load is the standard WW White Box 240 grain SP load.

Larry

I'll second everything Larry has said and simply add that the Winchester product number is Q4240.

 

[k22fan]

Some of those who have responded have more experience shooting game than I do so I'll argue the consensus conclusion from a different angle.

Despite their power the high price of boutique cartridges makes you less effective because the .44 Magnum handgun's deficiency is the amount of practice required to fire one accurately enough to take game, not its terminal ballistics. Firing

[...] just a couple rounds here and there to make sure I still know my POI,

would not have been enough practice to make me a humane deer hunter. If I was not a reloader spending my ammunition budget on standard brand .44 Magnum would have made me a more effective hunter than wasting those same dollars on boutique cartridges would have.

Which boutique cartridge will wear out the gun faster is moot because few people could afford enough of them to put much wear on the gun.