.44 Magnum Winchester silvertip 210 JHP for black bear defense?

[GunnerMichael]

Just wondering if anyone has experience with hunting black bear with the Winchester 210gr Silvertips.

I camp regularly and have not found a factory load that I am 100%confidant carrying for SD in California. It's not necessarily the bullet.

Part of it is me and the gun. I have a S&W M69 and am not a very experienced Magnum handler. I do have a lot of experience behind the trigger, just fairly new to the 44 magnum (.429 is now my favorite bullet diameter).

I have had the gun for a year or 2 and while I have shot it a lot I have a lot to learn. I was intending to load my Double Tap 320gr HC FP (probably overkill) but I can't hit nothin with that load. It's not the ammo or the gun, it's totally me. That round recoils something fierce in that L frame (the gun has handled that load just fine). I am sure I will learn to control the recoil in time but for now I need something lighter.

I was also considering the HSM 44 mag 240gr SWC cowboy loads, 1100fps, sounds about perfect to me.

But back to the Silvertip. Opinions?

(And no, I'm not going to just shoot a bear because I see one. I prefer not to kill wild life. Most times they just run off before I can even see them. In front of my M69 I carry bear spray, and 2 pans lol. The 44 mag is for those bears that don't fear mankind)

 

[amazingflapjack]

I prefer to load my own ammo-and I like a 240 grain lead semi wad cutter over 10-12 grains of Unique powder-it seems to be universal in its ability to handle most any situation in my N frame 44 magnums.

 

[bigggbbruce]

I prefer to load my own ammo-and I like a 240 grain lead semi wad cutter over 10-12 grains of Unique powder-it seems to be universal in its ability to handle most any situation in my N frame 44 magnums.

Alliant recommends 7gr max with 240gr lswc, and 10.3gr with 240gr jacketed..

Your load sounds dangerous.

 

[k22fan]

First, I have not shot a bear. However, as originally introduced the whole point of Winchester's Silver Tip handgun cartridges was their soft aluminum bullet jackets expanded faster than standard jacketed bullets. Isn't that the opposite of what you'd want for bear?

 

[old 1911 fan]

k22fan is correct. No hollow points. use jsp or fmj. I've taken 2 Black Bears with a 44 mag Contender. I used a Sierra 300g jfp loaded hotter than you would put in a S&W. You want penetration! Remember your 41 will enter at the size that the 30 caliber shooter hopes his bullet will expand to.

0ld 1911 fan

 

[sw282]

My PR Dog buddy in TX was charged by a 283 lb Black Bear while fishing

in Alaska maybe 10 years ago. He killed the bear with his 629-4 Power Port.

Winchester 250gr Platinum Tip put Smokey to bed @ less than 12 yds..

Friend said holster choice was very imporatant in bear country too..

He wears a chest mounted holster

 

[crazyphil]

Years ago I had to shoot black bear on 2 different occasions.
Shot them both with .38 SPL. RNL. First one was 500+ lb. old male.
Second was about 300 lb. sow. Hit both right under their ear high neck.
Both went down and expired with one shot. My advice is to carry what
you can shoot the best. Accuracy is what counts.

 

[one eye joe]

JHP AMMO IS INTENDED FOR SD, AGAINST HUMAN TARGETS.....

FOR LARGE DANGEROUS CARNIVORES, YOU NEED HEAVY, HARD CAST, SOLID BULLETS. THEY WILL PENETRATE DEEP, AND SMASH LARGE BONES, THEREBY DROPPING YOUR TARGET, BEFORE IT CAN REACH YOU, IN AN ILL INTENTIONED CHARGE.....

 

[double-dipper]

I second what one eye joe said.

What Tim Sundles said;
"The Buffalo Bore Heavy .44 Mag is designed for super deep penetration on large game. The big flat nose keeps the bullet penetrating straight and thus deep. You can expect a good three + feet of penetration in normal flesh and bone. The flat nose also does considerably more damage than a round nosed type of bullet as the flat nose cuts and smashes it way through living matter, while round nosed bullets tend to slip and slide through matter, doing much less damage along the bullet's path and achieving more shallow penetration due to getting sideways while "slipping and sliding" through matter".

enough said!

 

[apollo99]

It's been said before ,for bear defense bring a slower friend.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

The Winchester SilverTip bullets are designed for rapid and controlled expansion, not for deep penetration and not for crushing heavy bones.

Bears are tough critters with massive skull and skeletal structures. If I were intending to take down a bear I would want a heavy bullet of solid construction, such as a hard-cast 240SWC, capable of penetrating deeply, even when encountering bone.

Only bear I ever killed was taken with a 12-gauge rifled slug at close range. First round went in behind the shoulder and passed through the chest cavity, stopping near the off-side ribs. A second round was required to finish the critter, another slug applied behind the ear at near point blank range. This was not a charging or attacking bear, just a black bear going about his business and taken from ambush, so to speak. If I were faced with an angry bear intent upon attacking me I would want all the impact and penetration that could be applied, not relatively shallow wounds that don't result in fast incapacitation.

But after taking one bear, finding out just how nasty and smelly a bear really is, and experiencing some of the greasiest meat and foulest aftertaste, I tend to just leave the bears alone. I try to allow bears every opportunity to leave me alone also.

 

[p8riot]

As double-dipper said.

I carry the Buffalo Bore heavy 340gr, but not in a Smith. My bear gun is a Ruger SBH. My hunting buddy has had great success with 300gr Hornady XTP in his model 69.

 

[ParadiseRoad]

...210 grain seems pretty light for 44 Magnum...

...300 grain would be better...

...and then there's the 340 grain loads from Buffalo Bore...

...as Inspector Kate Moore said...

..."it's for the penetration"...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_1Ox9SvStE[/ame]

 

[A10]

I feel confident with 300 grain hard cast bullets at 1000 to 1100 fps. Use your favorite powder....

 

[shocker]

I like the OPs first choice. The Silvertip should be manageable for the shooter while having enough punch for the black bear. Keep in mind this is a 37 oz revolver so recoil is a definite issue.

 

[robertrwalsh]

My understanding of the issue (never hunted big game but have read and talked to people who have) is that for something big that can kill you you want to use a large, heavy solid bullet that will give you good penetration. A Silvertip is an anti-personnel round. It would not be my choice for large dangerous critters.

 

[Fishinfool]

I'll throw in my 2 cents - In your shoes, I would look at the Hornady factory 240 grain XTP loads. I have taken enough big game with this bullet (mostly in my own reloads) to know it penetrates deep and holds together as it should, while usually providing some expansion.

Why that bullet? Because a hard cast 240 / 300 SWC grain bullet will penetrate deep, but unless it hits the brain or spinal cord, is unlikely to immediately incapacitate a black bear.

The 240 grain XTP loaded to 1200 / 1300 fps will also penetrate deep enough (though usually not quite as deep as the hard cast SWC) to reach the brain / spinal cord of any black bear, with the added advantage of expansion / soft tissue damage on chest and body hits.

I don't base my opinion on theory, but on about 50 heads of big game taken with mostly XTP's and hard cast bullets over the years. Hard cast SWC's will kill, no doubt, but typically slower with body hits than an expanding bullet that holds together like the XTP's. Brain / spine? Don't matter then, as either style bullet will do the job. Years ago, I shot a small black bear up in Maine that was in self defense. A 230 grain hardball load out of a 1911 .45acp to the head at about 10 yards dropped him in his tracks.

That 210 grain Silver Tip is a soft bullet, and while penetration may be limited compared to heavier and stouter bullets, I would have to think that bullet, while not my first choice, would quickly kill a black bear shot broadside thru the heart / lungs, and would doubtfully just bounce off a bears skull.

If you are really concerned about penetration, Hornady offers a factory loaded 300 grain version of the XTP that would also be a good choice, and its not loaded to the very max., making it fairly controllable compared to some of the heavy weight speciality ammo out there. I used that bullet in my reloads to kill a big Maine moose with one shot with all the penetration I needed on an angling shot thru the chest and one shoulder.

Other jacketed bullets may work just as well, but I stick with the XTP's because they have proven themselves to me. I have also tried Nosler and Sierra 240's on deer as well, and they killed quickly on broadside heart / lung hits, but seemed a little soft for deep, angling shots.

Last note - One of the quickest black bear kills I have ever seen was back in the early 1980's. I was deer hunting in the thick stuff up in Maine. Besides my rifle, I was carrying my duty gun - a 4 inch .357 mag L frame loaded with 125 grain Remington SJHP duty ammo. Sitting facing a deer trail, I put down the rifle, and decided to try for a shot with the revolver. All of a sudden, a 250 lbs black bear appeared out of nowhere (they are good at that). Facing me at about 20 yards, and unaware I was there, I raised the pistol, and placed one shot, center chest, using the white spot on his fur as an aiming point. He reared up and "woofed", then fell dead. Not a recommended load, but picking up my rifle would have spooked him, and in the end, it did work. Good thing I don't take blood pressure meds...lol He was my first blackie with a handgun.

Larry

 

[jwk]

I like Winchester white box 240 grain JSP. Full power decent bullet reasonably priced and have shot well in all my 44 Mags. Haven't shot a black bear but shot several large feral dogs on a deer lease a friend was managing. Got full penetration on 100lb dogs that 45 ACP wasn't impressing either the dogs, my buddy who is a gunsmith or me.

That would be a good choice if you don't handload. If you handload I would work up a moderately heavy but not loaded to the gills lswc bullet.

Silvertips are good loads designed for shooting people. I carry them in 44 Special and 45 Colt revolvers.

 

[oink]

I've never carried for bear but I wonder how the Speer 270 GR Gold Dot Soft Point would do? That was the Dept. issue and I still have 7 boxes of it.

 

[jwk]

Oink what department issued a 44 Mag w a JSP bullet? If it wasn't a very rural area that wasn't a typical police department administrator. Heck how did the average officer most of whom aren't really gun guys qualify? I've seen cops who couldn't shoot a L frame well much less a stout 44 mag.